bedir than
Full Moon Storyteller
I've added a baton (finesse club) and also a broomstick (just a bludgeoning short sword).Agreed. As a DM, I've always introduced the Sap, a 1hp bludgeoning finesse weapon. But this makes better sense.
I've added a baton (finesse club) and also a broomstick (just a bludgeoning short sword).Agreed. As a DM, I've always introduced the Sap, a 1hp bludgeoning finesse weapon. But this makes better sense.
I think then it technically becomes an improvised weapon, and no longer a "ranged weapon", as the situation is under improvised weapons:If you really want to sneak attack with a bludgeoning weapon, you could make a melee attack with a loaded sling. Check with your DM of course, but it could be argued that it’s a ranged weapon and therefore qualifies, even if you’re making a melee attack with it.
Note that it says “if a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage,” not “it becomes an improvised weapon.” Moreover, even if you interpret this to mean that a ranged weapon used to make a melee attack is treated as an improvised weapon, the rules still need to treat it as a ranged weapon for the rule to “recognize” that it’s a ranged weapon being used to make a melee attack. The rule doesn’t work as-written if it stops being treated as a ranged weapon.I think then it technically becomes an improvised weapon, and no longer a "ranged weapon", as the situation is under improvised weapons:
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Listen, it is DIRECTLY under the section of Improvised Weapons, so the fact is that it becomes an improvised weapon and is no longer a ranged weapon both makes sense and seems to be RAI. As an improvised weapon, it would no longer be a ranged weapon so could not be used to Sneak Attack.Note that it says “if a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage,” not “it becomes an improvised weapon.”
Where does it say an improvised weapon can’t be a ranged weapon? Indeed, I think the opposite is suggested, given that it’s explicitly stated that if an improvised weapon resembles a normal weapon, you can treat it as such.Listen, it is DIRECTLY under the section of Improvised Weapons, so the fact is that it becomes an improvised weapon and is no longer a ranged weapon both makes sense and seems to be RAI. As an improvised weapon, it would no longer be a ranged weapon so could not be used to Sneak Attack.
Feel free to disagree, but there's no point in debating it IMO.![]()
But using a loaded sling (YOUR example) to make a melee attack with a "ranged" weapon makes it an improvised weapon. It is neither melee nor ranged because it bears no resemblance to either--again, making it an improvised weapon.Where does it say an improvised weapon can’t be a ranged weapon? Indeed, I think the opposite is suggested, given that it’s explicitly stated that if an improvised weapon resembles a normal weapon, you can treat it as such.
I find the notion that a sling bears no resemblance to a sling pretty strange, but whatever. This is why I prefaced the suggestion with “ask your DM.”But using a loaded sling (YOUR example) to make a melee attack with a "ranged" weapon makes it an improvised weapon. It is neither melee nor ranged because it bears no resemblance to either--again, making it an improvised weapon.
An improvised weapon can be used to make a melee attack or thrown. If an improvised weapon which resembles an actual melee or ranged weapon can be treated as such.
Weapons are either simple, martial, or improvised (if such a weapon bears no resemblance to melee or ranged). Those are the three type of weapons which have proficiency. Simple and Martial have subgroups of melee and ranged, improvised does not IMO. YMMV, of course.
For reference:
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It bears no resemblance to a ranged weapon when you load it and hit someone with it in melee, if anything it more then resembles a "short weighted-whip" maybe if you can convince the DM.I find the notion that a sling bears no resemblance to a sling pretty strange, but whatever.
Always the best advice IMO.This is why I prefaced the suggestion with “ask your DM.”
Kimtong Mountain Dwarf Scout Rogue.I would be interested in seeing any rogue you have played or DMd that didn't have at least a 12 dex.