D&D 5E Brawny rogue

[bedir than]

Agreed. As a DM, I've always introduced the Sap, a 1hp bludgeoning finesse weapon. But this makes better sense.

I've added a baton (finesse club) and also a broomstick (just a bludgeoning short sword).

 

[Charlaquin]

If you really want to sneak attack with a bludgeoning weapon, you could make a melee attack with a loaded sling. Check with your DM of course, but it could be argued that it’s a ranged weapon and therefore qualifies, even if you’re making a melee attack with it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If you really want to sneak attack with a bludgeoning weapon, you could make a melee attack with a loaded sling. Check with your DM of course, but it could be argued that it’s a ranged weapon and therefore qualifies, even if you’re making a melee attack with it.

I think then it technically becomes an improvised weapon, and no longer a "ranged weapon", as the situation is under improvised weapons:

 

[Charlaquin]

I think then it technically becomes an improvised weapon, and no longer a "ranged weapon", as the situation is under improvised weapons:

View attachment 256692

Note that it says “if a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage,” not “it becomes an improvised weapon.” Moreover, even if you interpret this to mean that a ranged weapon used to make a melee attack is treated as an improvised weapon, the rules still need to treat it as a ranged weapon for the rule to “recognize” that it’s a ranged weapon being used to make a melee attack. The rule doesn’t work as-written if it stops being treated as a ranged weapon.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Note that it says “if a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage,” not “it becomes an improvised weapon.”

Listen, it is DIRECTLY under the section of Improvised Weapons, so the fact is that it becomes an improvised weapon and is no longer a ranged weapon both makes sense and seems to be RAI. As an improvised weapon, it would no longer be a ranged weapon so could not be used to Sneak Attack.

Feel free to disagree, but there's no point in debating it IMO.

 

[Charlaquin]

Listen, it is DIRECTLY under the section of Improvised Weapons, so the fact is that it becomes an improvised weapon and is no longer a ranged weapon both makes sense and seems to be RAI. As an improvised weapon, it would no longer be a ranged weapon so could not be used to Sneak Attack.

Feel free to disagree, but there's no point in debating it IMO.

Where does it say an improvised weapon can’t be a ranged weapon? Indeed, I think the opposite is suggested, given that it’s explicitly stated that if an improvised weapon resembles a normal weapon, you can treat it as such.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Where does it say an improvised weapon can’t be a ranged weapon? Indeed, I think the opposite is suggested, given that it’s explicitly stated that if an improvised weapon resembles a normal weapon, you can treat it as such.

But using a loaded sling (YOUR example) to make a melee attack with a "ranged" weapon makes it an improvised weapon. It is neither melee nor ranged because it bears no resemblance to either--again, making it an improvised weapon.

An improvised weapon can be used to make a melee attack or thrown. If an improvised weapon which resembles an actual melee or ranged weapon can be treated as such.

Weapons are either simple, martial, or improvised (if such a weapon bears no resemblance to melee or ranged). Those are the three type of weapons which have proficiency. Simple and Martial have subgroups of melee and ranged, improvised does not IMO. YMMV, of course.

For reference:

 

[Charlaquin]

But using a loaded sling (YOUR example) to make a melee attack with a "ranged" weapon makes it an improvised weapon. It is neither melee nor ranged because it bears no resemblance to either--again, making it an improvised weapon.

An improvised weapon can be used to make a melee attack or thrown. If an improvised weapon which resembles an actual melee or ranged weapon can be treated as such.

Weapons are either simple, martial, or improvised (if such a weapon bears no resemblance to melee or ranged). Those are the three type of weapons which have proficiency. Simple and Martial have subgroups of melee and ranged, improvised does not IMO. YMMV, of course.

For reference:
View attachment 256702

I find the notion that a sling bears no resemblance to a sling pretty strange, but whatever. This is why I prefaced the suggestion with “ask your DM.”

 

[DND_Reborn]

I find the notion that a sling bears no resemblance to a sling pretty strange, but whatever.

It bears no resemblance to a ranged weapon when you load it and hit someone with it in melee, if anything it more then resembles a "short weighted-whip" maybe if you can convince the DM.

Since a whip is does have the finesse property, that would be the best argument if you can convince the DM to allow you to sneak attack with it, depending on how it is used.

This is why I prefaced the suggestion with “ask your DM.”

Always the best advice IMO.

 

[ECMO3]

I would be interested in seeing any rogue you have played or DMd that didn't have at least a 12 dex.

Kimtong Mountain Dwarf Scout Rogue.

At level 13:
S20, D10, C12, I10, W14, Ch14

Feats: Heavy Armor (4), Tavern Brawler (8), skill expert (10), Fighting Initiate-unarmed combat (12)

Saves: S5, D5, C1, I5, W2, Ch2

Skills:
Athletics (expertise) - 15
Acrobatics (expertise) - 10
Stealth (expertise) - 10
Perception (expertise) - 12
Investigation (expertise) - 10
Nature (expertise) - 10
Survival (expertise) - 12
Deception - 7
Intimidation - 7

With reliable talent and expertise his low dex and plate do not even gimp stealth, he is still getting a minimum of 20 on a stealth check.

He mostly uses a magic scimitar, which he is proficient in through Dwarf weapon training, he also grapples a lot instead of using sneak attack and with a min grapple check of 25, he usually succeeds. To be honest, in combat I think the build would be better using custom lineage and grappler instead of skill expert and playing a soul knife, phantom or arcane trickster instead of scout. Arcane trickster in particular could use enlarge, which would enable grappling against giants and dragons and such.