Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I love that! Definitely prefer version A of Strong Arm. Grappling is very thematic for a brawny rogue.
D&D 5E Brawny rogue
- Thread starter RogueBarbarian
- Start date
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Yeah, that was the original thought, but it seemed it might be a bit fiddly so I offered option B as a simpler feature.
Glad you like it!
aco175
Legend
Thug
Thug Life
Starting at level 3, you gain proficiency in the Athletics or Intimidation skills (if you already have proficiency in both, you may pick a different skill to gain proficiency in). In addition, when you make an Athletics or Intimidation check, you may add +1d6 to your roll.
Dirty Fighting
Your unarmed attack damage is increased to 1d4, and your improvised weapon damage is increased to 1d6. You can now also sneak attack with unarmed strikes, any weapon with the light property, or an improvised weapon.
When a creature within 5' of you makes an attack, you can expend a reaction to make a dirty trick attack on either the attacker or the creature attacked. Once you have made a dirty trick attack on a creature, you cannot do it again until you complete a short or long rest. This dirty trick attack must be made with an improvised weapon or an unarmed strike.
If the dirty trick attack hits, you can cause the triggering attack to have advantage or disadvantage (your choice).
Strong Arm
At 9th level, the first time you hit a creature with a melee attack on a turn, you can attempt to initiate a grapple. When you have a creature grappled, your attacks on the creature are at advantage.
In addition, you can use your Cunning Action to make an Charisma(Intimidation) check on a creature (this check is at advantage if the creature is at half HP or less) opposed by either a Wisdom Save or their Wisdom(Insight) check (their choice). If you are, the creature becomes Frightened of you for 1 minute. If failed, you cannot attempt this on the same creature until 24 hours have passed.
Gang Leader
Starting at 13th level, when a creature makes an attribute check with a skill you have proficiency in, as a reaction you can add +1d6 to their roll. In addition, a creature offering you cover from an attacker may subtract 2d6 damage from any attack that hits them from the attacker.
Gotta have a Code
Starting at 17th level, you are immune to effects that attempt to charm, frighten, mentally control you. In addition, divination effects that attempt to read your mind or determine if you are telling the truth give the information you choose.
...
This is an iteration on
Self-comments:
Dirty Fighting is probably too strong. I tried to limit it to 1/creature per fight to make up for it.
Gotta have a Code is an attempt at T4 "gang thug" inspired by Omar from the Wire.
Gang Leader is utility; adding to checks, plus reducing damage to people who protect you.
Strong Arm, I like grapple; making it automatic means you can fold it into Dirty Fighting.
The "threaten" mechanic is needed; makes Intimation combat worthy. I'd almost rather drop the grapple than the intimidation. Both of them are T1/T2 feel abilities, so putting them in T3/4 seems wrong.
Upping damage to 1d4/1d6 is a ribbon mostly. Forcing improvised weapons on Dirty Fighting means that dice matter a bit. It also means resist/immune non-magic damage is going to make Dirty Fighting not as good. I think I'm ok with that?
Thug Life
Starting at level 3, you gain proficiency in the Athletics or Intimidation skills (if you already have proficiency in both, you may pick a different skill to gain proficiency in). In addition, when you make an Athletics or Intimidation check, you may add +1d6 to your roll.
Dirty Fighting
Your unarmed attack damage is increased to 1d4, and your improvised weapon damage is increased to 1d6. You can now also sneak attack with unarmed strikes, any weapon with the light property, or an improvised weapon.
When a creature within 5' of you makes an attack, you can expend a reaction to make a dirty trick attack on either the attacker or the creature attacked. Once you have made a dirty trick attack on a creature, you cannot do it again until you complete a short or long rest. This dirty trick attack must be made with an improvised weapon or an unarmed strike.
If the dirty trick attack hits, you can cause the triggering attack to have advantage or disadvantage (your choice).
Strong Arm
At 9th level, the first time you hit a creature with a melee attack on a turn, you can attempt to initiate a grapple. When you have a creature grappled, your attacks on the creature are at advantage.
In addition, you can use your Cunning Action to make an Charisma(Intimidation) check on a creature (this check is at advantage if the creature is at half HP or less) opposed by either a Wisdom Save or their Wisdom(Insight) check (their choice). If you are, the creature becomes Frightened of you for 1 minute. If failed, you cannot attempt this on the same creature until 24 hours have passed.
Gang Leader
Starting at 13th level, when a creature makes an attribute check with a skill you have proficiency in, as a reaction you can add +1d6 to their roll. In addition, a creature offering you cover from an attacker may subtract 2d6 damage from any attack that hits them from the attacker.
Gotta have a Code
Starting at 17th level, you are immune to effects that attempt to charm, frighten, mentally control you. In addition, divination effects that attempt to read your mind or determine if you are telling the truth give the information you choose.
...
This is an iteration on
DND_Reborn
's Thug above.Self-comments:
Dirty Fighting is probably too strong. I tried to limit it to 1/creature per fight to make up for it.
Gotta have a Code is an attempt at T4 "gang thug" inspired by Omar from the Wire.
Gang Leader is utility; adding to checks, plus reducing damage to people who protect you.
Strong Arm, I like grapple; making it automatic means you can fold it into Dirty Fighting.
The "threaten" mechanic is needed; makes Intimation combat worthy. I'd almost rather drop the grapple than the intimidation. Both of them are T1/T2 feel abilities, so putting them in T3/4 seems wrong.
Upping damage to 1d4/1d6 is a ribbon mostly. Forcing improvised weapons on Dirty Fighting means that dice matter a bit. It also means resist/immune non-magic damage is going to make Dirty Fighting not as good. I think I'm ok with that?
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There's always Hoodlum, from the 5E video game Solasta:
Level 3
Hoodlum (Lost Valley DLC)
When heads need crackin' and people beatin', Hoodlums are those you turn towards. These brutes may not be professional soldiers, but honor don't win you fights - violence does.Level 3
- Mean Mug ➜ You gain proficiency in Intimidation, or expertise in Intimidation if you were already proficient.
- The Right Tools ➜ You gain proficiency with martial weapons, medium armors and shields.
- Heavy Beating ➜ You can use Sneak Attack even when using non-finesse melee weapons.
- Menacing ➜ An enemy hit by your Sneak Attack will have disadvantage on their attack rolls against you until the start of your next turn.
jgsugden
Legend
Like to sneak, but prefer to use force. More concerned with dealing damage. Could be stealthy, but their primary focus is strength ...
If a PC came to me with that idea, I'd suggest they multiclass rogue with barbarian or fighter. However, I'd be fine building a 'Brawny Rogue' archetype something like:
3rd: Thumper: You gain proficiency with all melee bludgeoning weapons and can sneak attack with them. You also gain proficiency with medium armor.
3rd: Grab and Go: If you use your attack action to grapple a foe, you may restrain them. The escape DC = 8+ your proficiency + your strength bonus. While they're restrained, so are you. When the grapple is broken, the target is knocked prone. The target can be no more than one size larger than you.
9th: Persistance: When you use your attack action to make an attack and miss, you may repeat the attack.
9th: Hard Hitter: Your sneak attack dice increase to d8 when using a melee bludgeoning weapon.
9th: Improved Grab and Go: Your grapple ability works on foes 2 sizes larger than you.
13th: Multiattack: You can attack twice, insead of once, whenever you use the attack action on your turn.
17th: Skullcrusher: When you use sneak attack on a target using a melee blugdeoning weapon and they have less than 40 hit points after taking damage, they die instantly.
I played a strength-based half-orc rogue in a short campaign once, and it was pretty great. There had also been a Thug in the early 5e playtest materials, but unfortunately it was cut (and was never developed beyound level 5, IIRC). As a player, the two obstacles were AC and the need for finesse weapons.
The proposals above address the need for finesse weapons. @DND_Reborn has pulled together something that's strong, but solid. Allowing light weapons includes a club, handaxe, hmmer and sickle. I'd be fine with that.
(Or, taking a cue from @jgsugden , simple bludgeoning weapons. That includes quarterstaff, which is abusable, but probably okay. Adding bludgeoning weapons would be too much, I feel.)
Double proficiency on Athletics and Intimidation is a lot, but is certainly something I'd play the hell out of.
The tension then becomes, can you also do something for AC, before the level 9 feature? I think it would be frontloading it too much to also add +1 AC when wearing light or no armor, but without that, you still need a high Dex (14 for most players, I 'd expect), which I would want to disincentivize.
So maybe proficiency is enough in the two skills (let expertise amp them further), but grant an AC bonus.
The proposals above address the need for finesse weapons. @DND_Reborn has pulled together something that's strong, but solid. Allowing light weapons includes a club, handaxe, hmmer and sickle. I'd be fine with that.
(Or, taking a cue from @jgsugden , simple bludgeoning weapons. That includes quarterstaff, which is abusable, but probably okay. Adding bludgeoning weapons would be too much, I feel.)
Double proficiency on Athletics and Intimidation is a lot, but is certainly something I'd play the hell out of.
The tension then becomes, can you also do something for AC, before the level 9 feature? I think it would be frontloading it too much to also add +1 AC when wearing light or no armor, but without that, you still need a high Dex (14 for most players, I 'd expect), which I would want to disincentivize.
So maybe proficiency is enough in the two skills (let expertise amp them further), but grant an AC bonus.
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You will lose a skill proficiency and dexterity save proficiency if you do it that way. Better to start in Rogue and go to Rogue 2 for cunning action first.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Glad it helps. IMO light weapons should already have been part of Sneak Attack. I mean, come on, a rogue can't sneak attack with a CLUB!?!
The handaxe "hatchet"-style or machete is also key to a thug build IMO.
I debated about this a lot TBH. At first it was just Intimidation, but for the purposes of grappling and shoving Athletics seemed best. A better compromise might be your choice of either Intimidation or Athletics, gaining double proficiency in your choice?
I don't see Thugs as normally having a high AC. I debated also about granting proficiency in medium armor, but it didn't feel right.
Maybe a feature which would allow the Thug to shrug off a hit and reduce damage? Something like this:
Shrug It Off
Beginning at X level, when you get hit by a critical hit, you can turn it into a normal hit. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
I would imagine at least one or both of those skills would already have proficiency, which is why double the proficiency bonus is more appealing IMO. I think a choice of one of the two is better.
If you like Shrug It Off, I am not certain what level you would put it at. Are there any features in my subclass above you would be willing to remove and replace with Shrug It Off?
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