Broken Base Lookback #2: Devil's in the Details

[GreyLord]

Remember, as stated in my original, don't argue, BE RESPECTFUL of others, this isn't to argue, but to analyze and comment. Some of these topics can be particularly envigorating to some's sense of honor, so if you are one of those that feel offended, stop...think...and then if you feel that you can state what you want without being offensive...type away.

This is about another broken base in the 80s. The Christians. I've picked and chosen some choice pieces here.

As I said in my earlier blog right before this, be respectful in comments.

This is from the all famous Chick site...so I expect that it may be too controversial for some, remember to refrain from emotion...but responses on analysis are GREAT or stories in regards to these views exhibited here.

I believe this article was originally published in 1989 and posted originally here...

Straight Talk on Dungeons and Dragons

Dungeons and Dragons is a tragic and tangled subject. It is essentially a feeding program for occultism and witchcraft. For Christians, the first scriptural problem is the fact that Dungeons and Dragons violates the commandment of I Ths. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil." Much of the trappings, art, figurines, and writing within D&D certainly appears evil-to say the least of it.

On top of that, the second issue is that the materials themselves, in many cases, contain authentic magical rituals. I can tell you this from my own experience. I was a witch high priest (Alexandrian tradition) during the period 1973-84. During some of that period (1976-80) I was also involved in hardcore Satanism. We studied and practiced and trained more than 175 people in the Craft. Our "covendom" was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; just a short drive away from the world headquarters of TSR, the company which makes Dungeons and Dragons in Lake Geneva, WI. In the late 1970's, a couple of the game writers actually came to my wife and I as prominent "sorcerers" in the community. They wanted to make certain the rituals were authentic. For the most part, they are.

These two guys sat in our living room and took copious notes from us on how to make sure the rituals were truly right "from the book," (this meaning that they actually came from magic grimoires or workbooks). They seemed satisfied with what they got and left us thankfully.

I must admit that my wary senses were screaming that something didn't sit right about this in regards to how truthful he is being about being a high priest. This is especially true when he relates to having fair maidens sacrificed on altars as a realistic item of Satanism today. In my experience that religion actually teaches of the empowerment of man, not blood sacrifices and curses. Anyways, this isn't the article for me to express my doubt, it's more about the attitude that got to be prevalent in the early 80s and of which this article is a child of. It's the idea that D&D players could not be good Christians and were evil. I've had many Christian friends (or should I say...so called friends) that have accused me of worshipping false deities or even worse. I consider my self striving to be a good Christian.

In this, I see a rift amongst the base.

Additionally, much of the game contains overtones that reek of illicit sex and sexual violence. For example, the cover of one D&D supplement, called Eldrich Wizardry, shows a naked woman reclining on an obviously satanic ritual altar. This tragic scene is compelling because it is really what is done in genuine satanic groups all over the nation.2 It is extremely sado-masochistic because the fate of such a woman is to be either raped, gang-raped, tortured or sacrificed to a demon god. This kind of imagery can be very provocative and seductive to adolescent males or even adults.

Additionally, male characters in the game often try to seduce female characters; and references abound to things like venereal disease and satyriasis (a male condition of permanent sexual arousal). Can these sorts of things be appropriate for Christians or even for any decent person of whatever faith?

Unique points that he brings up. I wasn't too much into this type of gameplay myself, but I did see this type of gameplay from some of my drunk friends at times.

Religion-values and belief systems (see below) are restructured from traditional Judeo-Christian ethics (which most people in Western culture adhere to) to belief in multiple gods and deities. Players align themselves with specific deities they select; patron deities are strongly urged. These are not fantasy deities, but are drawn from genuine ancient religions and beliefs! Only occult gods are included. In addition, defilement is urged in many ways, such as excrement or urinating to "defile a font."
Loss of Self-control-authority over self is surrendered to the DM. Depending on the personality and ego-strength of the player, this loss can be near absolute.

I believe original that actual Christian theology was also included...I think that was also frowned upon by Christians however...

This is another, broader issue here. The values of the game are not only pro-violence and death; they also entrain the player in an entirely different way of looking at life: what is called by anthropologists the "Magical World View(MWV)." This MWV is far outside the cultural norms of most societies, and certainly outside the realms of Biblical values. Let me explain:

The MWV teaches that there exists in the universe a neutral force, like gravity, which is magic. In this worldview, there is no sovereign God; but rather the universe is run like a gigantic piece of machinery. Magic's application is the understanding of how to manipulate the universe to get what you want.
........

The Judeo-Christian Worldview (i.e. from the Bible, and held by most cultures in the Western world to some degree) teaches, on the contrary, that the universe is in control of a sovereign Person, God. To get "results," He must be asked

........

Now obviously, these two worldviews cannot exist in the same moral universe.

And here thus is one of the crux's of the entire discussion...from a Christian viewpoint can one play a game that has pantheon's of deities, sometimes taken from mythology of the real world...as well as a belief in mystical magic and such being real with divine energies from living, breathing deities one can even meet...as opposed tot he real world where this doesn't?

I would say of course one could, but there is a large segment of Christians that believe otherwise.

As the apostle Paul warns us, (1Cor. 15:33) "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." If games and manuals which extol black magic, rape, sado-masochism, murder and violence are not "evil communications," then I do not know the meaning of the terms!

.........

Thus, in my mind, and in the minds of most who have come out of this background as I have (occultism and Satanism); there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell. No Christian or sane, decent individual of whatever faith really should have anything to do with them.

So here you see the mindset that sort of tried to pit Christians against D&D.

I imagine that he had a bunch of negative replies as this was written circa 1989 and he got rather defensive with another article.

http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp

Read it online!
by William Schnoebelen
©2001 Reproduced by permission

Believe it or not, it has been nearly 12 years since I wrote the original Straight Talk on Dungeons and Dragons. In that time, I have received hundreds of letters and at least a thousand emails about it. This subject is surprisingly controversial, even among Christians. This astonishes me!

In this context, I am amazed at how many so-proclaimed Christians who defend the game, do so with foul and abusive language. This, I think, speaks volumes about the spiritual impact of the game.

Just a quick survey shows the cultural impact of D&D and its offspring. Just recently, a spectacular movie called Dungeons and Dragons was released. Additionally, the pop culture is virtually drowning in sorcery and occult related topics.

Today shelves in major bookstores literally groan under the weight of various of books on Wicca, for example. Some of these books, like TEEN WITCH, are written for young readers. There is even a DUMMIES GUIDE TO WICCA AND WITCHCRAFT!! When D&D started, you could perhaps find four or five books on Wicca in print.

Now, obviously not all of this can be laid at the door of D&D. But in the 1970's, it was one of the major cultural phenomena that planted the seeds that have sprouted into Harry Potter and all the occult books and movies.

Is there that much more on Wicca? I don't really investigate it, never had much fascination on the subject, I would suppose he follows it closer than I ever did. Harry Potter WAS popular though.

Fantasy was big enough in the 70s already though, where do people think Gygax and Arneson got their inspirations from...or at least a few of them.

Defending the Game

The arguments I get from those defending D&D (Christians or otherwise) are similar to those from people defending their favorite cult (Mormons, Masons, etc.). That, in itself, is interesting. These would include:

The author (me) is an idiot who knows nothing about the occult or D&D. This is the most common defense and the laziest. It is the old ad hominem argument.
D&D materials do not really say the things which the older article says they say.
It is only a game. It is not real.
There is no danger in playing D&D because its rituals are NOT based on real magic.
The suicide/homicide/mental illness issues are grossly overplayed and part of a hysteria, which swept through evangelical Christianity in the 1980's. This last is based primarily on an article by a Jeff Freeman27.
The STRAIGHT TALK is old and out of date.
When we (the emailer and friends) play D&D, we do not do those nasty things.
The game offers positive skill development.


Examining the Issues

Two of these can be dismissed quickly. The first is obviously a personal attack, which is baseless. My occult credentials are well established and my IQ is comfortably above idiocy.

I have played D&D a few times and spent dozens of hours talking with players and Dungeon Masters (DMs). Admittedly, my first hand experienced with D&D is from the 1970's-80's, but I would think it still counts for something. Has the game changed that much?

Now for those of you who thought that this would be something about an edition war involving 3e and 4e...this question could actually be rather humorous given that item. We may yet investigate the changes and Broken Base involved in that...but this isnt' about that. However, with many of those who would claim drastic changes...I think they'd give this guy a strong...YES.

Note that this was written a short time after 3e came on the market I believe.

Just found it kind of funny in regards to the community.

How is D&D anti-Biblical? First, because it presents a universe without God in the Bible sense. To be sure, these clerics and other game roles serve gods, with a small "g." As mentioned above, these gods are mythic and generic, according to the manuals. Some DMs even create games, I am irately informed (often with fluent cursing) that are monotheistic, where there is only one god. This would be very exceptional. The D&D handbook's section on religion begins with the statement: "the gods are many."30

Overall, I think this is the crux of his, and some other Christian's MODERN arguments against D&D as opposed to the traditional all D&D'ers are Devil worshippers mantra. Now it's more that they claim it's non-biblical. That's an interesting take, and one I might agree with them on. Then again, is my Algebra book non-biblical...I'd say yes...it's non-biblical. Is my Astrophysics book on the origins of the universe non-biblical...I'd say that's also a yes (and probably have some interesting dynamics against it in a few circles of certain types of Christians).

Defenders of D&D often complain that it is only a game. Playing chicken with cars is "only a game" until someone gets killed. So is Russian roulette! I am frequently told to "get a life" or write about something more important than D&D, like social justice or world hunger. The devil would sure like that.

It needs to be emphasized that a spiritual deception which draws people away from Jesus Christ is much more dangerous than automotive chicken or people dying of starvation. People who write such things are - in all Christian charity - deceived. Down through the ages, no institution has done more to help the poor, the orphans and the starving than has the church of Jesus Christ. I would just ask them where are the rescue missions and orphanages started by D&D gamers?

I've played D&D for decades...I suppose he would claim that I have been taken far down that path away from the Bible...though I think I personally have gotten converted and drawn closer to Christ.

Now of course, we are not saying that everyone who plays D&D is going to end up a sorcerer or a Satanist. But we are saying that being exposed to all these ideas of magic to the degree that the game requires cannot but help have a significant impact on the minds of the players, no matter if they are Christian or unbeliever, and no matter what the "template."

This is not just chess, football or bridge. This is a game that envelops the player in an entirely different fantasy world in which the power of magic and violence is pervasive. It is a game with a distinct and seductive spiritual worldview that is diametrically opposed to the Bible. Yes, sorcery appears in the Bible. But it is NEVER in the context of a good thing to do. It is always presented as something dangerous and utterly contrary to the will of God.

The question still stands. Why would a Christian wish to involve themselves in such a game?

"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry."
—1 Samuel 15:23.

His response is actually LONGER then his original article. I think my answer would be that I think that some items in this life are neither anti or pro Religion, inclusive of the Christian religion. I don't think D&D is inherently evil, or inherently good anymore than a hammer or gun is inherently evil or good.

You can find those who have used guns to shoot others or to do great harm. At the same time you see those who use it to provide food for themselves, or have utilized it in sports for enjoyment. You see those who have hurt or killed others with hammers, at the same time you see those that have used hammers to help build houses, repair furniture, and make better lives for themselves.

Regardless, I see that this promotion of D&D as evil has caused a tremendous rift amongst christians in regards to what they may think of their Roleplaying Brethern.

 

[Luce]

Hmm, clearly not done his homework. There has been several articles in (The) Dragon explaining magic in context.
Take "The laws of Magic" in Drag 106 , which by the way was published in 1986 3 years before the article quoted by the OP.
It introduces the consent of a 5th element:
"In The Sorcerer's Handbook, by
Wade Baskin, akasa is defined thus: In
Pythagorean thought, the fifth element. It is
a celestial ether or astral light that occupies
all space. In certain Buddhist teachings, it is
the cosmic spirit-substance, the vast reservoir
of being. This fifth element could be
taken as the energy field which permeates
the multiverse."
Then it goes on explaining how different people use it-arcane, divine and psionic.
It is an interesting psevdo science article. It touches on how deities need worshipers, belief is power and gives a reason for "fire and forget" nature of the spells.
The point being is that the accusations are based on casual glance of the subject matter and less then rigorous research. The author is trying to appeal to the emotions of the reader by making grand unsupported statements. At first glance his claim to having been a "witch high priest" seem to give him a air of validity, on deeper introspection however...
Well lets just say one does not reach a high position in any group without considerable amount of time and effort (by his own word at least 9 years worth) , which leads one to suspect the sincerity of the writer.

 

[TerraDave]

Back to BADD?

(My own experiences with this 1) a game store that didn't sell D&D! they changed management pretty shortly, 2) my original expert set thrown out by someones parents that I had lent it to...)

The pulling report is the definitive account, and rebuttal, of the hysteria of that time:

Michael A. Stackpole: The Pulling Report

(My own timeline, in my sig, also has nods in the right years, including a link to the fairly disastrous 60 minutes segment).

The thing is that the D&D and the BADD crowd rose and faded together. And their is little question that early controversies drove sales in its hey-day. Maybe the game started to loose players (though it didn't stop CBS from running the cartoon series) eventually from all this, and TSR certainly bent over backwards to appease that crowd, but overall I don't there is much evidence that there was a real "split" over it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Sorry guys, but I can't see how this doesn't trample all over the 'no religious discussion' rules, so I'm closing it before someone gets into trouble.