Broken Magic Item: Infinite Healing?
- Thread starter RangerWickett
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RuminDange
First Post
In the magic item creation rules for the 3.5e SRD there is a part that applies a multiplier based on the duration of the spell if you are making it unlimited or continuous. For those spells with duration of rounds the multiplier is 4, as the duration goes up the multiplier goes down. But it doesn't mention what to multiplier to use for an instantaneous duration to become unlimited or continuous. On a judgement call, and this would be only way to allow it, I say at a minimum of x10 probably as high as x20, if allowed at all.
Consider if you allow a wand to cast unlimited cure light wounds of even 20000gp or Ioun stones that do cure minor wounds continuously, what stops someone from making a Continuous Fireball thrower?
I'd have to say on a judgement call that instantaneous duration spells could not be made into continuous items, however, they can be able to be in unlimited items but with limited uses per day or limited to 1 use per round as per the bow of true strike as one example. (unlimited once per round true strikes, and it is a cheap item to get at only 1650gp..if my memory serves correctly).
Granted a Wand of Unlimited Cure Light Wounds spell would be very powerful indeed to have inbetween each encounter and if allowed to have such an item, then all encounters need to have the CR/ECL raised by say 3-4 in difficultly but not experience value to reflect the party will not be using all their spells to heal inbetween encounters and can be healed up completely given enough time between each encounter. Let deal with creatures and challenges that the wand will not always be so helpful...hard to save 2 dying characters when the wand only works once per round.
Just my 2 cents worth.
RD
Consider if you allow a wand to cast unlimited cure light wounds of even 20000gp or Ioun stones that do cure minor wounds continuously, what stops someone from making a Continuous Fireball thrower?
I'd have to say on a judgement call that instantaneous duration spells could not be made into continuous items, however, they can be able to be in unlimited items but with limited uses per day or limited to 1 use per round as per the bow of true strike as one example. (unlimited once per round true strikes, and it is a cheap item to get at only 1650gp..if my memory serves correctly).
Granted a Wand of Unlimited Cure Light Wounds spell would be very powerful indeed to have inbetween each encounter and if allowed to have such an item, then all encounters need to have the CR/ECL raised by say 3-4 in difficultly but not experience value to reflect the party will not be using all their spells to heal inbetween encounters and can be healed up completely given enough time between each encounter. Let deal with creatures and challenges that the wand will not always be so helpful...hard to save 2 dying characters when the wand only works once per round.
Just my 2 cents worth.
RD
RuminDange
First Post
dulsin said:
The creation rules already cover this, at least up to 5/day. It lowers the base cost. Formula: Base Cost / 5 / Times per day. Once you go over 4 per day, the cost is normal for the unlimited item.
An item either has charges or usable 1, 2, 3, 4 times a day or is unlimited in use.
The only way to really handle something like an unlimited healing item is to do a judgement call and make it compable to other similiar items if you have them to compare to. But make sure comparision items are similiar enough.
Although I agree that an item that says heals you one hit point a round is similiar to a regeneration item, also consider the regeneration item will grow back parts where as healing one point does not recover such loss. Of course since the base rules do not include this option except the famed Vorpal sword, regeneration and the spell are somewhat over priced/stated and unneeded. Since neither are useful once your head has left your shoulders.
Really expensive since you will need 100 very expensive gems to make this item.
I am (coincidentally) about to introduce a similar item into my campaign world, except that it's a +1 warhammer of cure light wounds. Yes, caster level one. As in, take 1d8+1 damage, and heal for 1d8+1 damage. It's mostly used as a weapon for ceremonial combat, but, like the club of healing, is great vs undead. I mention it only because I'm giving it the best name ever. Are you ready?Korimyr the Rat said:
It's called the Fauxhammer.
Spatzimaus
First Post
As these other guys have pointed out, the DMG tables are guidelines for the DM to ballpark the price of a new item he wants to make, NOT construction rules for the players. So first, you'd have to allow the item to exist in the first place (bad idea), then you'd have to set the price (aim high)...
In smackdown-type threads, I've seen people suggest ridiculous characters using this. One person said "Oh, I'll have a STR of 48, because I made an item that gave a +6 Enhancement bonus to STR, another that gave a +6 Luck bonus to STR, another that gave a +6 Sacred bonus to STR..."
Allowing the player to research a new type of item isn't always a bad idea, but it shouldn't just be the same old item in a new slot (for example, someone suggesting an amulet that does the same thing as their favorite ring so that they don't need to take the Forge Ring feat). And, as DM, feel free to add some drawbacks or added abilities. For example, if someone wants an item that adds Natural Armor and CON, make it also add a bit of DR and subtract some WIS, then price accordingly.
There are just some insanely abuseable combos that you should ban outright (the infinite Cure Minor Wounds or True Strike come to mind), but in my experience they've all been traced back to three things:
1> Spells with instantaneous or really short durations (not as much of a problem in 3.5E)
2> Spells that have a good effect at caster level 1
3> Spells that are useful when cast more than four times a day, especially if they can be cast on other people.
It's when those three are combined that the rules really break. If your item of Cure Light Wounds was a caster level 12 ring, it wouldn't be quite so broken. If it was a spell like Longstrider that has a decent duration and is self-only, it's not an issue either.
That led to the House Rules that my group use:
1> Any item with unlimited uses or continuous effect must be a Rod or Ring. (Existing Wondrous items with unlimited/continuous use are retroactively changed to 5/day)
This was based on Monte Cook's "quacks like a duck" statement.
2> All items have a minimum caster level equal to the level needed for their Feat. So, no ring can be below CL 12, no Wondrous item below CL 3. Also, all abilities on an item must have the same caster level.
This solved 99% of our problems before 3.5E redid the system. Boots of Springing and Striding weren't a problem any more, since they'd only last a couple minutes at a time and required activation. It's a LOT harder to break the system when you can't have unlimited uses.
In smackdown-type threads, I've seen people suggest ridiculous characters using this. One person said "Oh, I'll have a STR of 48, because I made an item that gave a +6 Enhancement bonus to STR, another that gave a +6 Luck bonus to STR, another that gave a +6 Sacred bonus to STR..."
Allowing the player to research a new type of item isn't always a bad idea, but it shouldn't just be the same old item in a new slot (for example, someone suggesting an amulet that does the same thing as their favorite ring so that they don't need to take the Forge Ring feat). And, as DM, feel free to add some drawbacks or added abilities. For example, if someone wants an item that adds Natural Armor and CON, make it also add a bit of DR and subtract some WIS, then price accordingly.
There are just some insanely abuseable combos that you should ban outright (the infinite Cure Minor Wounds or True Strike come to mind), but in my experience they've all been traced back to three things:
1> Spells with instantaneous or really short durations (not as much of a problem in 3.5E)
2> Spells that have a good effect at caster level 1
3> Spells that are useful when cast more than four times a day, especially if they can be cast on other people.
It's when those three are combined that the rules really break. If your item of Cure Light Wounds was a caster level 12 ring, it wouldn't be quite so broken. If it was a spell like Longstrider that has a decent duration and is self-only, it's not an issue either.
That led to the House Rules that my group use:
1> Any item with unlimited uses or continuous effect must be a Rod or Ring. (Existing Wondrous items with unlimited/continuous use are retroactively changed to 5/day)
This was based on Monte Cook's "quacks like a duck" statement.
2> All items have a minimum caster level equal to the level needed for their Feat. So, no ring can be below CL 12, no Wondrous item below CL 3. Also, all abilities on an item must have the same caster level.
This solved 99% of our problems before 3.5E redid the system. Boots of Springing and Striding weren't a problem any more, since they'd only last a couple minutes at a time and required activation. It's a LOT harder to break the system when you can't have unlimited uses.
BSF
Explorer
Generally speaking, it is strongly advised against allowing spells with an instantaneous duration to be turned into persistent magic items. Otherwise, something like goggles of magic missile would be great damage dealers.
Goggles of Magic Missile
Anybody you look at gets hit by 5 magic missiles each round.
Cost: Spell level x caster level x 2000 = 1 x 9 x 2000 = 18000 gp. Sure, it is more expensive than you continuous healing item, but it is probably doing mroe damage too. And, the wearer still gets to do something else.
For a fighter, the above mentioned Goggles of True Strike would be nice. Even if it were only usable once a round, that first attack is going to be a nice hefty power attack and it only cost 2000 gp.
As I said, duration: Instantaneous should not be allowed to be made into a persistent item.
Goggles of Magic Missile
Anybody you look at gets hit by 5 magic missiles each round.
Cost: Spell level x caster level x 2000 = 1 x 9 x 2000 = 18000 gp. Sure, it is more expensive than you continuous healing item, but it is probably doing mroe damage too. And, the wearer still gets to do something else.
For a fighter, the above mentioned Goggles of True Strike would be nice. Even if it were only usable once a round, that first attack is going to be a nice hefty power attack and it only cost 2000 gp.
As I said, duration: Instantaneous should not be allowed to be made into a persistent item.
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