Brutal Throw too strong?

[Darklone]

Sooo. I guess this has been discussed thorougly here. So if someone could provide some old links, I'd be happy and the thread might be closed.

Otherwise: I just built a halforc thrower char with Brutal Throw, racial levels and rage... And I think it's as sick as allowing feats for Dex as additional ranged damage.

And if this wouldn't be bad enough... upgrade Power Throw.

What's your experience?

 

[Iku Rex]

As if this wouldn't be bad enough ... check out the Boodstorm Blade PrC from Tome of Battle.

(BTW, if anyone else is wondering the feats he's talking about are from Complete Adventurer.)

 

[justinsluder]

Well, if I didn't know about the Axethrower feat from PGtF I'd say Brutal Throw was okay. I would house rule that you have to select a type of damage (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing) to which Brutal Throw applies to. It can be selected up to three times that way, and would be slightly more balanced.

At least I think so........

 

[Darklone]

The interesting part is highlighted... Do you think that's not too strong? One more feat and he'll throw through DR with Power Throw. He needs Extra Rage (or barbarian levels), Weapon Focus and WS... This is Point Buy 36, so simply lower str by two.

Gronk Spearslugger Needmorefeats, male halforc Paragon3/Ftr4, LN, medium humanoid.
Init +...
Languages (Languages) Oink?
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AC 18, touch 10, flat-footed 18
hp 67 (7 HD)
Fort +12, Ref +4, Will +4 (+6)
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Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee (Spear +1 twohanded) +16/+11 (1d8 + 13/*3), (Spiked Gauntlet +15/+10 (1d4 + /*2), TWF possible
Ranged (Spear+1) 1d8 +9 (1d8+9/*3)
Ranged Routine (Rage, PBS, Rapid Shot, TWF)
2 Spears +1, Spear, Javelin of Lightning:
+15 (1d8+11)/+15 (1d8+11)/+14 (1d8+5)/(5d6/Refl DC14) or Spear +9 (1d8+10)
...
Combat Gear: Gauntlets of Ogre strength (4000gp), 2 Spear +1 (2 * 2301gp), 10 Spears (10gp), 3 Javelin of Lightning (3 * 1500gp), Cloak of Protection +2 (4000 gp), Fullplatemail (1500 gp), 2 Quaals feather token whip, 2 Spiked Gauntlet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 25+2 ( +8 ), Dex 10 (+0), Con 16 (+3), Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 6
SQ (catch this!), Rage 1/day
Feats: Slow (trait), Power Attack, Brutal Throw, Quickdraw, PBS, TWF, Rapid Shot.

 

[Machiavelli]

Usually you'll just specialize in one weapon, anyway, so limiting the options for weapons Brutal Throw applies to doesn't actually balance anything. Besides, any idea with the words "limiting the options" in it should be scrutinized carefully before using in a role playing game.

That said, I do think Brutal Throw is as silly as applying Strength to damage without also applying it to range or tying range to damage.

 

[starwed]

You've got the slight problem that your ranged routine works only once.

Ignoring the bloodstone blade, this just isn't that powerful. I built a pretty good fighter/master thrower once using this concept, but the limiting factor is that once you've thrown a weapon, you don't get it back. And returning weapons come back at the beginning of your next turn, so you can only use one of them (or two if dual wielding.)

Now, the bloodstone blade's lightning ricochet does make a pretty good combo. ^_^

 

[Darklone]

Once? Because of rage? Yupp, once per day. Because of the spears? No, the char could have bought more +1 spears...

And neither Rage nor the magical spears are the bad part of the combo, it's bad enough if he throws it without either, what he can do all day long (Guess how many spears he can carry). Certainly, it's no sick PrClass combo... yet it looks too strong to me. Don't forget he's not at all buffed yet as adventuring PCs normally are.

 

[Boondoggle]

First of all, any build using 36 point buy can be brutal. In cases with extraordinarily high stats, feats that allow 'swapping stats' for something are extremely powerful.

That said, I also think the feat is a bit overpowered as it is. The idea is good, it's just too useful as it is, and requires very little sacrifice (1 feat slot from a fighter build). I would change it to require weapon focus (a thrown weapon) and allow it only to work on weapons with which the character has weapon focus. Alternatively, have the prereqs be power attack & +6 BAB

 

[Darklone]

Build the same thing with Point Buy 28. It will still rock like hell. (I think I forgot the PBS damage. Yes I did.)

And that's not even some insane monster build. Give that feat to any large or bigger monster race and have fun.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Seeing as how melee fighters add strength to attack and damage for free, I don't see how allowing throwers to do so at the cost of a feat is overpowering.