Buffy 17 Feb 03

[Chun-tzu]

But I have to admit, I am getting a bit bored with Buffy's portrayal this season. Maybe bored isn't the right word. One time she's proclaimimg that only she can fight this evil since she is The Slayer, the next minute she's harping on everyone that it is a team effort. A point that Xander actually brings forward. I was a bit turned off by Buffy's rejection of extra power, but then pleasantly surprised to see Buffy admit that she made a mistake in turning it down.

I haven't had a problem with Buffy this _season_, but this episode, I've been wondering, what the blazes is her problem?

She gives the potentials a hard time. Over what? What exactly is it that she wants them to do? She complains that she's been carrying/babying them, but it's not like there's an enemy for them to go after. Bottom line: Buffy was wrong, and everyone there knew it.

Then she has Willow activating this magic item, but they don't know what it does. They open a portal, and Buffy jumps in, assuming that she'll find a way out. Really, how much more reckless can you get? We're all gamers here: how stupid would you have to be to do stuff like that? Confidence in your abilities is one thing. But it's not everything.

Similarly, the elders offer her power, and her immediate reaction is, "No, you're wrong. That's not what I need. I know better than you." Now, maybe she's right. But from what we know (and we know as much or more than she does!), she had no basis for coming to that conclusion! What on earth was she thinking? And why didn't she ask them more useful questions? She seeks knowledge, but doesn't ask them what they mean when they said she's the last guardian of the Hellmouth. (I'm thinking this means the Hellmouth will get shut down.) Instead, she says, "Screw you. You don't have anything useful for me" and leaves.

The only other time Buffy has ever acted so stupidly, IMHO, is when she left Sunnydale after she killed Angel.

 

[stevelabny]

my comment about buffy's vision was...

Buffy: "Tell me something I don't know"

Mysterious dude: "if you wish" ...

Insert: "we know you've been busy...have you seen The Two Towers? There's a really big orc army"

When the fight happens is Andrew going to look at Xander and says "Toss me!" ?

steve

 

[John Crichton]

Re: Re: Buffy 17 Feb 03

I haven't had a problem with Buffy this _season_, but this episode, I've been wondering, what the blazes is her problem?

She gives the potentials a hard time. Over what? What exactly is it that she wants them to do? She complains that she's been carrying/babying them, but it's not like there's an enemy for them to go after. Bottom line: Buffy was wrong, and everyone there knew it.

Then she has Willow activating this magic item, but they don't know what it does. They open a portal, and Buffy jumps in, assuming that she'll find a way out. Really, how much more reckless can you get? We're all gamers here: how stupid would you have to be to do stuff like that? Confidence in your abilities is one thing. But it's not everything.

I took it as Buffy starting to freak out and realized that she/the group doesn't have what it takes to beat The First the way things are now. But her natural instincts are to keep fighting and win. She doesn't have any quit in her but she does have fear, panic and concern. She has no idea what is coming. She doesn't know really what the hellmouth holds and no one is giving her the answers she needs to fight the war. Plus, it's the leader's job to shake things up a bit when needed. She may have been a bit off and wrong in the way she handled it, but it needed to be said.

Similarly, the elders offer her power, and her immediate reaction is, "No, you're wrong. That's not what I need. I know better than you." Now, maybe she's right. But from what we know (and we know as much or more than she does!), she had no basis for coming to that conclusion! What on earth was she thinking? And why didn't she ask them more useful questions? She seeks knowledge, but doesn't ask them what they mean when they said she's the last guardian of the Hellmouth. (I'm thinking this means the Hellmouth will get shut down.) Instead, she says, "Screw you. You don't have anything useful for me" and leaves.

The only other time Buffy has ever acted so stupidly, IMHO, is when she left Sunnydale after she killed Angel.

She chose not to take the power because she didn't want to become more demonlike and therefore closer to evil. The First Slayer was a savage and she doesn't want to become that. She wants to be more than that. Because of the people around her, she has been able to survive longer and do things that the slayers of the past couldn't because of her resources (the rest of the Scoobs).

For the leaving part, she didn't leave IIRC. When the "exchange student" was forced into the portal she was whisked away. No time for more questions. And as for the freaking out after killing Angel thing and some of her other seemingly rash actions, do you know any 23 year old females (which I believe is Buffy's current age in the show) who have died twice, killed their vampire lover, lost a loved parent, gained a sister out of literally nowhere and saved the world on mulitple occassion? She's still easing into adulthood and will crack from time to time. The important thing is that she bounced back each time, sometimes with help and others on her own. The show is certainly fantasy but it's characters are grounded in reality and humanity. That's what I like about it so much. But to each his own.

 

[Tsyr]

Few comments.

On the "last guardian of the hellmouth" thing. Ok, first slayer was a savage, because she was directly infused with the demon-power. Subsequent slayers have been getting the power passed along. Maybe it's akin to generations in Vampire: The Masquerade, and gets weeker through the generations? Maybe Buffy and Faith are the last two slayers with enough power in them to count for anything?

Just a thought. I tend to look at it a different way, though... Buffy is the last guardian of the hellmouth, because she will either find a way to seal it or destroy it, or she will die and the world will be over run, thus making guarding the thing a moot point.

I also am not sure I grok the whole "We have to protect these potentials because they are all we have" and the whole "ending of the slayer line" bit... Look at the potentials. I don't see that the "gift" is at all related to an actual genetic bloodline. It seems to look for "traits". And who gets imbued when a slayer dies is the potential that has the best "traits" at the time. So, even if all the slayer potentials were slaughtered, and buffy and faith died, wouldn't "the powers that be" simply find the next young girl with the closest traits, and so on? I guess what I'm saying is, it's always seemed to me that *every* girl was a slayer *potential*, just some were more likely than others.

 

[John Crichton]

I also am not sure I grok the whole "We have to protect these potentials because they are all we have" and the whole "ending of the slayer line" bit... Look at the potentials. I don't see that the "gift" is at all related to an actual genetic bloodline. It seems to look for "traits". And who gets imbued when a slayer dies is the potential that has the best "traits" at the time. So, even if all the slayer potentials were slaughtered, and buffy and faith died, wouldn't "the powers that be" simply find the next young girl with the closest traits, and so on? I guess what I'm saying is, it's always seemed to me that *every* girl was a slayer *potential*, just some were more likely than others.

Not a bad point. I'm very interested to learn more about why a specific girl could become a slayer (and therefore be a potential). I can understand the possessing certain attributes and the like aspect but I don't know if Joss will ever fully spill the beans on the complete how and why of Slayers.

I've always liked to think of it as the whole opposite of "where there is light there will always be darkness" thing. If there are demons with all this power there must be some kind of supernatural karmic balance; this creates the Slayer. Fate (or the Powers The Be, as it were) would seem to choose the Slayer using that assumption. Of course, since Fate is very fickle it is safe to assume that it doesn't know the future, but can only influence it. That's how we end up with the two Slayers, because Fate didn't see it coming.

And just like the Scooby Gang, I have no idea where all of this is going.

 

[Hecabus]

End of the Line

Note that the creators of the Slayer say that Buffy is the last Guardian of the Hellmouth not the last slayer. Buffy isn't really the Slayer anyways, Faith is. To my knowledge, the show has never shown a guardian for the Hellmouth and there are two possible conclusions. Either the Evil wins and the world dies (thus no need for a Guardian) or Good wins and Evil has to find a new point to entry the world.

I am pretty good at guessing long term plans for Joss Whedon's shows and I have no clue where this is going. There are still eight episodes to go (maybe with a two hour finale) and there are so many possible ways for the story to go.

 

[myrdden]

I've always liked to think of it as the whole opposite of "where there is light there will always be darkness" thing. If there are demons with all this power there must be some kind of supernatural karmic balance;

Wasn't it mentioned in a recent episode that some sort of "balance" has been disrupted and this is why the First is now taking such a prominent role?

Myrdden

 

[John Crichton]

Wasn't it mentioned in a recent episode that some sort of "balance" has been disrupted and this is why the First is now taking such a prominent role?

Yeah, that beholder lookin' thing that Giles and Anya spoke with said something about a disruption. I wish I had saved that ep, now....

 

[Umbran]

My thoughts on the whole thing are rather like John Chriton's...

As for Buffy's behavior - hey, cut her some slack. Heroic character or not, she's under a lot fo stress, and doesn't know what to do. She's starting to bend a bit under the strain.

As for denying the power - of course she'd not take ont he power. Have you gamers forgotten the great maxim of fantasy - those wo fight monsters must always be on guard against becoming a monster? Fighting fire wiht fire can get you seriously burned - as Gandalf and Galadriel seem to know better than some of us

Yes, the critter that Anya and Giles talked to did refer to some imbalance or disruption that allows the First to take advantage of the situation. My best guesses suggest it's either referring to the fact that there are two people with the Slayer power, or ot the fact that Buffy was brought back from the dead by supernatural means.

 

[Pazu]

Random observation

Off on a completely different tangent:

Does anyone else find the Kennedy character as irritating as I do?

Just this episode alone, we get treated to her silly drill-sergeant routine (as if she, as one potential Slayer among many, has any right to be bossing the other girls around), she rips on Spike for being ineffective against the demon (as if she had had any more success in fighting it), and then she gets bent out of shape after Willow uses some of her life energy to power her spell (as if she hadn't been pushing Willow all episode to do some magic).

Previously, we got to watch her sleaze on Willow with pick-up lines that would have had everyone up in arms had they been coming from some slimy fratboy. And it's very unclear as to why she gets to be privy to all the higher-up planning meetings, other than that she's apparently Willow's new squeeze.

I guess that even in the Scooby Army, there's a way to sleep your way to the top.

On the plus side, Kennedy has had one good effect. I no longer despise Dawn quite so much.

-- Pazu (More Chao-Anh and Andrew! Less Kennedy and Dawn!)