Buffy 17 Feb 03

[Chun-tzu]

Re: Re: Re: Buffy 17 Feb 03

I took it as Buffy starting to freak out and realized that she/the group doesn't have what it takes to beat The First the way things are now. But her natural instincts are to keep fighting and win. She doesn't have any quit in her but she does have fear, panic and concern. She has no idea what is coming. She doesn't know really what the hellmouth holds and no one is giving her the answers she needs to fight the war. Plus, it's the leader's job to shake things up a bit when needed. She may have been a bit off and wrong in the way she handled it, but it needed to be said.

Sure, Buffy is stressed out. But the whole bad cop/drill sergeant routine seemed pointless to me. She came down hard on the potentials, to toughen them up. I'm not convinced that ever really works. Her bottomline message was something really vague, like "surprise yourselves, reach your potential." Which didn't tell them ANYthing. Xander got it right; Buffy is their leader, they've been following her lead.

She chose not to take the power because she didn't want to become more demonlike and therefore closer to evil. The First Slayer was a savage and she doesn't want to become that. She wants to be more than that. Because of the people around her, she has been able to survive longer and do things that the slayers of the past couldn't because of her resources (the rest of the Scoobs).

It seemed to me, though, that she had refused the power before she knew the cost. I could be wrong about that, though.

For the leaving part, she didn't leave IIRC. When the "exchange student" was forced into the portal she was whisked away. No time for more questions.

No, on Buffy's side, she was quite done. One of the elders said that they offered her power, and she replied something like, "no kidding." Then he puts his hand on her face, and she returns. Buffy wasn't suddenly pulled away with unfinished business.

Maybe my initial reaction was harsh, but Buffy just struck me as more reckless than she should be. I suppose it's justified, with her vision of the first Slayer telling her, "It's not enough" and Chloe committing suicide. But Buffy's an old hat at this. How is this apocalypse any more stressful than all the past ones? I'm not meaning to criticize Buffy here. I suppose I'm second guessing her, not unlike Xander and Willow when she was chewing everyone out.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Re: Random observation

Does anyone else find the Kennedy character as irritating as I do?

I only found Kennedy irritating when she was talking back to Buffy (which I don't mind, especially since Buffy was scolding them for nothing) and saying, "You aren't even the most powerful one here! Willow is!" That only means anything if the leader is defined as the one who is the most powerful.

Just this episode alone, we get treated to her silly drill-sergeant routine (as if she, as one potential Slayer among many, has any right to be bossing the other girls around)...

I don't see a problem with this. First, I assumed that someone else had asked Kennedy to lead the others in their drills. It's ust like in karate class; the sensei doesn't usually lead the class in warm-ups, s/he has a senior student do that. Why Kennedy? We know that she's older than most of the others. In an earlier episode, she talked about that, and about how she thinks it may be too late for her, because of that. Kennedy has also been there longer than most of them, so she has "seniority."

Previously, we got to watch her sleaze on Willow with pick-up lines that would have had everyone up in arms had they been coming from some slimy fratboy. And it's very unclear as to why she gets to be privy to all the higher-up planning meetings, other than that she's apparently Willow's new squeeze.

I do think it's a bit soon for Willow to be in an actual relationship again. It wasn't that long ago that we saw she had some very strong guilt over moving on. It's hard for me to believe that she's completely worked through all that. But I'm more or less undecided on Kennedy at this point.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I had the theory that the reason they keep finding more Proto-slayers is that more keep getting generated. The Cycle continues...

I also wonder what it matters about the slayer being dead? I mean, what is the Evil trying to Gain?

The hellmouth was unguarded for a long time, who cares if Buffy is there or not?

Is there a point to the whole thing, or is it all happening because The First is "evil" and does "evil" things?

 

[John Crichton]

Sure, Buffy is stressed out. But the whole bad cop/drill sergeant routine seemed pointless to me. She came down hard on the potentials, to toughen them up. I'm not convinced that ever really works. Her bottomline message was something really vague, like "surprise yourselves, reach your potential." Which didn't tell them ANYthing. Xander got it right; Buffy is their leader, they've been following her lead.

The speech she gave was more for Willow, Spike and the others rather than the potentials, IMO. And yes, they were following her lead, but not to their full potential (not talking about the potential slayers, here). Willow has been unable to be fully effective with her magic, Spike has been a wuss and everyone was waiting around for her to do something. I'd like to believe that she was stressing that the more powerful and resourceful of the group be proactive rather than reactive. I don't think she did it in the best way possible. I'd like to think that (for example) if you put her and Angel in the same situation that they would handle it differently. Angel would be a little more calm and cool while Buffy would be more emotional and prone to an outburst.

But that's just my take.

Originally posted by Chun-tzu
It seemed to me, though, that she had refused the power before she knew the cost. I could be wrong about that, though.

Still doesn't change the point that she didn't want to become a savage. She wanted info, not more Slayer Power for herself.

Originally posted by Chun-tzu
No, on Buffy's side, she was quite done. One of the elders said that they offered her power, and she replied something like, "no kidding." Then he puts his hand on her face, and she returns. Buffy wasn't suddenly pulled away with unfinished business.

The hand on the face was to give her the vision. But if you recall, the demon and Buffy returning at the same time was part of the secret of the box. In order for her to go back, the exchange had to be made again. Now, it could be that she was sent back at the part of her own free will but it didn't look that way nor did the episode seem like it was going that way to me.

Originally posted by Chun-tzu
Maybe my initial reaction was harsh, but Buffy just struck me as more reckless than she should be. I suppose it's justified, with her vision of the first Slayer telling her, "It's not enough" and Chloe committing suicide. But Buffy's an old hat at this. How is this apocalypse any more stressful than all the past ones? I'm not meaning to criticize Buffy here. I suppose I'm second guessing her, not unlike Xander and Willow when she was chewing everyone out.

Works for me.

 

[John Crichton]

I had the theory that the reason they keep finding more Proto-slayers is that more keep getting generated. The Cycle continues...

Interesting point. I was thinking the same thing.

I also wonder what it matters about the slayer being dead? I mean, what is the Evil trying to Gain?

The hellmouth was unguarded for a long time, who cares if Buffy is there or not?

Is there a point to the whole thing, or is it all happening because The First is "evil" and does "evil" things?

These are the questions on all our minds, my friend.

 

[DM_Matt]

In rejecting the power, Buffy showed herself to be a total hypocrite.

On this show, nature is the supreme good. This show glorifies balance and N-aligned beings. Good and evil are both disruptions, almost equally bad, and thus are intertwined.

Every Scooby has a resevior of power, and in every case that power is dark. Buffy and Spike tap the demons within. Willow taps her innate primal magic which pushes her towards evil becuase she approaches it in a human, scientific way without fully embracing wicca, which seems to moderate it by subordinating oneself to the balance. Giles the librarian/Watcher is a wuss, but he derives power form tapping into Ripper, his metaphorical demon which provides him with power and necessary ruthlessness.

She yells at the others for holding back becuase they are afraid to exploit their dark power sources without succombing to them. Yet when offered more dark power, she refuses, becuase she is afraid to do exactly what she is demanding of her friends.

 

[myrdden]

On this show, nature is the supreme good. This show glorifies balance and N-aligned beings. Good and evil are both disruptions, almost equally bad, and thus are intertwined.

Really? I haven't seen it that way at all.

If anything, I haven't seen much of the "good side" at all. It seems that there is nothing but evil all around, with just the Slayer and her gang battling it out. There hasn't been much in the way of a "force of good" other than the Scoobies.

If there is a "First Evil", shouldn't there be a "First Good" to keep the balance? Maybe that's what the Slayer line is? (Although I would find that a bit much...)

If I have missed something, please feel free to share.

Myrdden

 

[coyote6]

I think that Buffy understood (thanks to her best friend's example last season) that losing yourself in dark power isn't a particularly healthy exercise.

Also, the fact that the three wise men thought it was a good idea to smack her on the head and chain her up before trying the demonic infusion -- well, usually one doesn't need to go to something good for someone, which implies that the infusion wasn't such a good thing for Buffy. Furthermore, the demonic energy first tried the invade-through-the-eyes-and-mouth routine, and followed it up with what looked like an invade-through-places-Eric's-grandmother-doesn't-want-discussed. I wouldn't be reassured and happy with such efforts at assistance.

Besides, maybe Buffy realized that if she really does need to tap into the Slayer Essence, hey! Willow, Xander, Giles & her have done that before. Now they can add Dawn, Anya (there are certainly plenty of wronged women for any vestigal demonic abilities to tap into), Andrew, Faith, and all the Potential Slayers to the mix. Now that's Uber-Slayer potential!

Bonus, there'd be weird cheese-riddled dreams after.

 

[John Crichton]

Bonus, there'd be weird cheese-riddled dreams after.

Which is really all any of us want to see anyway.

 

[coyote6]

Which is really all any of us want to see anyway.

That, and a giant Potential Slayer pillow fight.