D&D 5E Building a Better Berserker

[BookBarbarian]

I played a Berserker to level 4 and exhaustion is brutal. Honestly, If I want to make a better Berserker I would just remove the racial restriction from the Battlerager it's got plenty of Berserk built into it. That's easier that trying to fix Frenzy.

 

[Weathercock]

What about the possibility of moving Retaliation to level 3 (perhaps consider changing it to just being attacked, rather than being hit), and then put an uncosted version of Frenzy at a later level? And then change/remove and replace entirely Intimidating Presence?

So something like:

3: Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage
10: Uncosted Frenzy
14: Intimidating Presence (or analogue)

or

3: Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage
10: Intimidating Presence (or analogue)
14: Uncosted Frenzy

ooooor

3:Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage + Intimidating Presence (or analogue)
10: Uncosted Frenzy
14: Cool whacky capstone

Putting retaliation at a lower level encourages reckless, Berserker style play from the very beginning, and uncosted Frenzy at the level ~10 range keeps Berserker's damage scaling nicely, and altogether ends up providing something slightly unique from Totem Warrior. Moreover, it also wouldn't scale too badly in featless games either.

 

[BookBarbarian]

What about the possibility of moving Retaliation to level 3 (perhaps consider changing it to just being attacked, rather than being hit), and then put an uncosted version of Frenzy at a later level? And then change/remove and replace entirely Intimidating Presence?

So something like:

3: Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage
10: Uncosted Frenzy
14: Intimidating Presence (or analogue)

or

3: Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage
10: Intimidating Presence (or analogue)
14: Uncosted Frenzy

ooooor

3:Retaliation
6: Mindless Rage + Intimidating Presence (or analogue)
10: Uncosted Frenzy
14: Cool whacky capstone

Putting retaliation at a lower level encourages reckless, Berserker style play from the very beginning, and uncosted Frenzy at the level ~10 range keeps Berserker's damage scaling nicely. Moreover, it also wouldn't scale too badly in featless games either.

I like these. Retaliation and Mindless Rage are great, but Intimidating Presence is pretty bad. One possibly frightened creature at the cost of an action? I'll pass. I could see something like an Intimidating Aura that affects all creatures within 5ft working, but it still shouldn't take a whole action. Maybe as a bonus action.

 

[Weathercock]

I was figuring just turning Intimidating Presence into expertise on Intimidation checks, and allowing you to always use Strength for those checks if whatever you're trying to intimidate can see you. Put that ribbon at level 3 or 6, and that leaves us open for one shiny new level 14 capstone.

 

[Greg Benage]

I strongly dislike the way they tied frenzy to exhaustion. This is what I'm doing for my Primeval Thule game. It has much the same flavor, but scales with level and can be managed by effective player choices. I think it's less useful in a traditional game with abundant healing resources, though. The berserker probably just becomes a heal tax.

When he uses the frenzy ability, a barbarian must expend one unspent barbarian Hit Die, plus one additional Hit Die for each time he has previously used the ability since his last long rest (e.g. 1 HD for the first use of frenzy, another 2 HD for the second, another 3 HD for the third, etc.). This replaces the existing exhaustion mechanic.

 

[Weathercock]

Expending hit die to activate Frenzy was an idea that I had considered working with for a while, but it too ended up scaling horribly. Prior to level 11, Frenzy is already in strong competition with Polearm Mastery without​ the associated cost (remember, the difference between 1d4 and 1d12/2d6 really isn't usually a whole lot once you factor in the static modifiers for Strength, rage, and the GWF power attack). After 11, it's entirely outclassed by pretty much every other melee class' features if you include the cost.

 

[Greg Benage]

I don't really agree with that. The berserker is going to have the highest melee DPR. This is true even with the exhaustion mechanic, it's just that the barbarian severely gimps himself in the non-combat pillars of the game by doing so. The difference in weapon die are certainly consequential, particularly when Brutal Critical 1, 2 and 3 come into play. And of course the berserker is equally as capable of taking GWM + PAM as anyone else, to maximize DPR when he's not frenzied.

Having said that, my current version of the house rules bans power attack with Polearm Master. I personally have no problem with GWM or Sharpshooter on their own, but I have been persuaded they're too much of an outlier in combination with PAM and XBE, respectively. Primeval Thule handles my problem with the latter by eliminating hand crossbows from the setting. And since it's only the combination that is problematic for me, the easiest and lightest solution is to ban the combination and otherwise leave the feats alone.

 

[Weathercock]

The thing is that Berserker only gets the highest DPR if you ignore the abilities of other classes completely. A fighter with advantage (which isn't that hard to get in 5e, especially if you use flanking) using Action Surge will end up doing more damage over the course of 3 turns, and vastly more if you give him the ability to land attacks of opportunity (past level 11, a Berserker using Frenzy and getting an Attack of Opportunity every turn is going to do less over three turns than a Fighter just using an action surge without any AoOs). This isn't even including factors like Champion's increased critical hit rate, Battlemaster's maneuvers (Precision Strike specifically ends up increasing potential damage output to an insane degree), and Eldritch Knight's spell casting ability. And that's not saying anything of what Paladin or Rogue can bring to the table in concentrated nova output.

Compared to what those other classes offer, Berserker's damage (and that of Barbarian in general) is going to actually be considerably lower, but more consistent over the course of a fight thanks to the ability to force advantage and maximize its actions. But overall, Barbarian's damage is actually on the lower side of things for most encounters once you consider factors outside of the basic attack action. Which is fine. Barbarian gives up some of its damage output in exchange for other benefits, such as its increased survivability across the board. But it doesn't need an additional penalty to Frenzy for that.

 

[Greg Benage]

The thing is that Berserker only gets the highest DPR if you ignore the abilities of other classes completely. A fighter with advantage (which isn't that hard to get in 5e, especially if you use flanking) using Action Surge will end up doing more damage over the course of 3 turns, and vastly more if you give him the ability to land attacks of opportunity (past level 11, a Berserker using Frenzy and getting an Attack of Opportunity every turn is going to do less over three turns than a Fighter just using an action surge without any AoOs).

As you suggest in your second paragraph, I'm not concerned about three turns -- I'm concerned about damage over a typical adventuring day. I agree the berserker has less controllable nova ability (his uncontrollable novas with frenzy, reckless attack, and brutal critical are considerable). As for opportunity attacks, the high-level berserker's going to get a reaction attack with advantage from reckless every round in which he takes melee damage, so that comparison is unlikely to go against him.

In any case, I'm basing my assessment on Kryx's DPR of Classes, which is the most rigorous treatment of the subject I've seen. His spreadsheet has a GWM + PAM battlemaster doing 9.5% less DPR at level 20 than a GWM + PAM berserker over the course of an adventuring day. The key thing to point out is that his math assumes only 1.5 frenzies per day (based on a campaign pace of two adventuring days per three days of game time), whereas with my fix the berserker will be able to frenzy more often. If he also needs controllable novas, for some reason, I suppose he can consider a two-level dip in fighter for the style and action surge.

Anyway, YMMV. I think Kryx's work is excellent and illuminating, but this will never be an exact science. My "fix" has not even seen game action, so I'm not going to argue much about it. The math seems reasonable, most importantly it should be more fun to play, and we'll have to see how it works.

 

[Weathercock]

In calculating the damage done over an adventuring day, you also really have to consider the value of the damage being done. In this sort of case, spike damage is worth a lot more than consistent damage, since the ability to take out an enemy in one or two rounds is a huge force multiplier and can end up reducing the length of combat over an adventuring day considerably. Yes, a Barbarian will do more damage over the course of a longer period of time, but it completely lacks in any way to front load a lot of damage in a single crucial instance (remember, a Berserker can't benefit from the effect of Frenzy until the turn AFTER it is activated, since entering rage takes up a bonus action), outside of multiclassing (which does come with its own compromises). With that in mind, it should be doing more damage over drawn out periods.

Also note that most of these frontline classes provide their damage with additional utility, which the Berserker does not really provide. Even Totem Warrior, with its own selection of potent support abilities, approaches (and in some cases, at lower levels, even surpasses) Berserker damage rates at higher levels, thanks to the new tiger totemic attunement.