Bull Rush into an IRON MAIDEN

[DracoSuave]

The way I see it, there shouldn't have been a save involved, and here's why. Using Keep on the Shadowfell as an example (which, I'm assuming, you were playing), if I'm not mistaken, simply being being (or being pushed) in the same square as the Iron Maiden doesn't cause damage to anybody- when someone is in the Iron Maiden's square, someone else has to taken an action (minor, I believe) to close said Iron Maiden, thus dealing damage. In this case, the Iron Maiden's square is no more hindering than a square in the middle of the battlefield, because it doesn't deal damage until someone takes an action to deal damage to you.

Well using the rules for one Iron Maiden isn't the same for another... but it's a good way of looking at it.

To get the save:

1) The Iron Maiden has to be terrain.

That's pretty important. Is the Iron Maiden a terrain element, or is it a hazard or trap?

2) Does it punish movement or deal damage for being there?

If it doesn't do these things without extra interraction, i.e. closing the door, believe it or not, it's not hindering terrain, even if it IS terrain.

or

3) If it is not terrain, does it have 'can save' as a countermeasure?

If using the iron maiden is part of the encounter tho, like it seems, it's a trap, probably has a trap write up, and doesn't in any way represent a piece of terrain.

 

[Wik]

Were it me, I'd allow a save to fall prone - because not granting a save to the PCs is kind of unfortunate - especially in a case where it could knock you out of the fight. To be honest, though, nowadays I'd add an option if a player were to suggest it -

you can try to switch places with the hobgoblin, shoving HIM into the Iron Maiden, by making opposed checks with a -5 penalty on your check. Failure on the check means that you get shoved into the maiden and take additional damage (and no save).

I love doing things like that - letting the players negotiate new terms in the combat, but if they fail the check (and they're often hard) they have to suffer a penalty, which is always known to the player beforehand.

MAkes for a lot of memorable moments.

 

[eriktheguy]

Enough people have already said this, but yeah, when something cool happens, you let it.

 

[Stalker0]

Yup. Our Cleric Commanded a Goblin into it, then moved over and shut the door.

Everyone else was like "D@MN!"

For some reason, killing them with an Axe seems OK, but an Iron Maiden? That's just harsh, man!

Just as a note for the discussion, while "forced movement" normally provides a save to go into hindering terrain, other types of movement doesn't.


Moving a creature via command or because they are dominated is not forced movement by the book. That movement provokes OAs and can throw things into hindering terrain as much as it wants.

 

[Uber Dungeon]

lol, I'm really trying to picture this happening; hobgoblin bull rushing someone into an IRON MAIDEN... throw the rule book out, thats two awesome not to happen.
However, trying to picture it... i wonder if the player would get closed in and if so, would the hobgoblin get closed in to? would there be enough time for it to get out of the way and close it in one turn?, lol

this just gave me that image of the hobgoblin and PC getting stuck in an iron maiden.

 

[Taed]

We went through this encounter over the weekend, but the nearest PC was standing two squares in front of (not next to) the iron maiden, so the bull rush couldn't work. And I had made a little iron maiden prop out of Lego. Oh well.

One of the players was obsessing about the fellow's leather mask. They wanted to pull it off during combat but couldn't get close enough. They were underwhelmed when they finally pulled it off. I'm not sure what they were thinking they'd find -- an old and pale Anakin Skywalker?

 

[Thatwackyned]

Our parties FeyLock is wearing it now. Dips it into freash blood every chance he can get. His fey was a red cap.

Watch out for that ghost in the tomb, it's a PK. Good thing we had a radiant stone with us.