bypassing prereqs...

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just looking at the SRD for verification- the Sorc gets 3rd level spells at 6th level, not 4th.

By 4th, though, he'd have at least 2 if not 3 feats, depending on race. It saves 2 levels, which isn't shabby.

 

[Dandu]

Plus, Versatile Spellcaster is a pretty good feat, and Heighten spell is average.

 

[irdeggman]

Just looking at the SRD for verification- the Sorc gets 3rd level spells at 6th level, not 4th.

By 4th, though, he'd have at least 2 if not 3 feats, depending on race. It saves 2 levels, which isn't shabby.

Actually it won't work.

"You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows."

A sorcerer can't "know" any 3rd level spells until 6th level.

Basically this feat allows you to cast an "extra" higher level spell by expending 2 lower level slots.

Heighten spell allows you to increase the CL but not the actual spell level - that is it won't allow you to cast a 3rd level spell early. It will allow you to increase the CL of a 2nd level spell to 3rd level of effect - but the spell is still a 2nd level spell.

"A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level."

The problem with this combination is that no matter what you do with these 2 feats is that the character still doesn't know a higher level spell (in this example a 3rd level spell) to use the versatile caster feat on.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Why are we trying to "bypass" or "skirt" these requirements anyway? The requirements need to be satisfied; otherwise, the prestige class cannot be taken.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good catch, irdeggman.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Why are we trying to "bypass" or "skirt" these requirements anyway? The requirements need to be satisfied; otherwise, the prestige class cannot be taken.

They are being satisfied, just earlier than the designers expected. Most early-entry methods are used because many PrCs aren't worth it if you have to wait so long to get them, or simply because people are playing in lower-level campaigns and want to get into the PrCs before the end of their campaign.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Maybe, but I've never seen one "earlier than intended" "trick" that wasn't either totally against the spirit of the rules or excruciatingly erroneous by the letter of the rules. These things always seem to devolve into taking Some Feat (or Being Some Race or Taking Some Other Class Level) That Doesn't Really (or Isn't Supposed to) Do That. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Maybe, but I've never seen one "earlier than intended" "trick" that wasn't either totally against the spirit of the rules or excruciatingly erroneous by the letter of the rules. These things always seem to devolve into taking Some Feat (or Being Some Race or Taking Some Other Class Level) That Doesn't Really (or Isn't Supposed to) Do That. Maybe it's just me.

Granted they weren't supposed to allow early entry, but most of them in fact do allow early entry without any twisting or misinterpretation of the rules. The Primary Contact trick explicitly gives you a skill rank above your cap, Precocious Apprentice explicitly gives you a 2nd level spell, Heighten explicitly counts as the higher spell level (and if you don't like Versatile Spellcaster there's Earth Spell and others), and so forth. The spellcasting tricks seen as cheesy usually really aren't (e.g. people argue that Precocious Apprentice doesn't work because a 2nd-level spell isn't "able to cast 2nd-level spells," discounting the problems this ruling poses for sorcerers and anyone who uses up their full daily allotment of 2nd-level spells).

Honestly, I mostly discount "spirit of the rules" when it comes to early entry because it's been long established that WotC doesn't know its own game and 3e-as-playtested and 3e-as-played rarely match up anymore; I've found that there are more benefits to early entry than there are drawbacks.

 

[Dandu]

Maybe, but I've never seen one "earlier than intended" "trick" that wasn't either totally against the spirit of the rules or excruciatingly erroneous by the letter of the rules. These things always seem to devolve into taking Some Feat (or Being Some Race or Taking Some Other Class Level) That Doesn't Really (or Isn't Supposed to) Do That. Maybe it's just me.

FAQ confirms that Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell really do work that way.

Neener.

 

[Marius Delphus]

FAQ confirms that Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell really do work that way.

Seems to me it's already been cogently argued both ways in this very thread.

Anyway, instead of engaging in a lengthy, grognard-style rant, arguing chapter and verse, pulling out dictionaries, and so forth, I'll just lament that that it seems like building characters has become all about what kind of "tricks" you can "pull off" with access to 15 books, or whatever.

Sorry to have bothered anyone. I'm going to go and try to enjoy playing a human single-class fighter or something.