D&D 5E (2014) Calculating a fist-sized diamond

[Gradine]

Diamonds are exceptionally common, and their value (in the real world) is massively inflated by the company with the monopoly on diamond mining artificially limiting supply to an extreme degree.

So it is weird that our fantasy worlds value diamonds in exactly the same way we do

 

[Maxperson]

As going by carats, each carat of a diamond weighs 0.000440925 lbs. (0.20000021574225 grams)
And if we were to say that a diamond could weigh 10 lbs, then that would make it a 22679.6 carat diamond. (4535.92 grams)
The current largest diamond in the real world is the Cullinan Diamond which is 3,106.75 carats or 1.3698422661 pounds (621.35000000647 grams)
The Cullinan Diamond is worth $400 million dollars.

To humor the idea, let us briefly consider D&D people weighing a fist-sized diamond in its weight in gold.
The hand of an average adult human weighs approximately 1.03 lbs, rounded down to 1 lb.
Gold in turn has a weight of 1lb per 50gp.
That in turn would mean the diamond is 2267.96 carats and weighs 1 lb. (453.592 grams).
I think we can all agree that such a comparison means that the average person is getting scammed by 4550 gold pieces when they try to resurrect their dead friend.
If we wanted to stick to the idea gold and its weight and that somehow equating to 5000gp diamond, you would need to bring over 100 lbs worth in gold. (45359.2 grams)

For fun, I also have this old Dragon Magazine article (#8), since we want to chat about how 5e caputres that OSR feel.
Its stated that a 1 carat diamond is worth 200g on average. So simply put a 5000gp diamond is a 25 carat diamond.
However, a 25 carat diamond only weighs 0.0110231 lbs or 5 grams.
Nowhere near what a fist-sized diamond would be in size.
We already calculated it would be 2267.96 carats to be 1 lb so its about the same weight as a human hand.
Which 2267.96 carats aka 1lb worth in diamond (1 carat per 200gp) is worth 453,592 gold pieces.
If we wanted to use the Cullian Diamond instead which is even more approximate to a fist-sized diamond that would be 3,106.75 carats which is 621,350 gold pieces.

So a fist-sized diamond is worth either 50gp (weight value) or its worth 453,592gp (market value).

A fist sized diamond would be closer to the half million gold piece mark.

What I find fun is that value is really supply and demand, not inherent. That means that if you buy a diamond worth 500 gold for raise dead and then travel to a place where diamond mines are plentiful, you might find that the diamond is now worth only 250 gold and now you won't be able to bring back your comrade. You could also try to talk the DM into allowing you to use a diamond chip that your PC values at 10,000 gold, because he REALLY likes diamond chips.

Or we can just leave out economics entirely and arbitrarily assign diamonds value by size, so that no matter where you are, it has an inherent value that is usable for spells. 200 gold or 250 gold a carat seems reasonable to me.

 

[Maxperson]

Diamonds are exceptionally common, and their value (in the real world) is massively inflated by the company with the monopoly on diamond mining artificially limiting supply to an extreme degree.

So it is weird that our fantasy worlds value diamonds in exactly the same way we do

Not so weird. They don't have the mining ability that we have now, so even if diamonds in the fantasy worlds are as common in the ground as we have here on Earth, far fewer are being mined and the shiny brilliance will still be prized. Especially since 70% of diamonds mined are not gem quality.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As Maxperson notes, most diamonds are not gem quality, I know the IMPLICATION of their use in magic is that they be gem quality, but it doesn’t mean it has to be that way.

In fact, that could be one factor in how those who bring back the dead make a profit- they buy large, low grade uncut diamonds and use them in their rituals.

 

[Maxperson]

As Maxperson notes, most diamonds are not gem quality, I know the IMPLICATION of their use in magic is that they be gem quality, but it doesn’t mean it has to be that way.

In fact, that could be one factor in how those who bring back the dead make a profit- they buy large, low grade uncut diamonds and use them in their rituals.

Alternatively, a low grade diamond of the appropriate value might have side effects attached as determined by the DM.

 

[Ancalagon]

Diamonds are exceptionally common, and their value (in the real world) is massively inflated by the company with the monopoly on diamond mining artificially limiting supply to an extreme degree.

So it is weird that our fantasy worlds value diamonds in exactly the same way we do

Exactly?

Now I don't want to poo-poo your post, but your wording triggered my number crunching addiction

An "ordinary" diamond, based on the DMG, is worth 5000 gp. Now we know there are smaller, cheaper diamond, so let's say it's a "nice" diamond, but not some kind of ultra rare flawless pink diamond either

I'm not a gemologist, but a quick web search says that a 1 carat diamond is priced in the 1 300 to 16 000$ (a number of ranges exist, they are all in the same rough spot). So let's pick... 5000 dollars, for ease of comparison.

Now let's say you have that nice 5000 dollars diamond in the real world, vs having that diamond in D&D, and that in both cases, you cash out and use the money to sustain yourself for a year.

5000$ a year is NOT going to carry you far, and is far lower than poverty levels in North-America.

In D&D, you could like like an aristocrat on 5000 gp a year. Heck, if you decide to live modestly (but not poorly), that gem will keep you going for well over 10 years!

So... it would appear that diamonds are far more valuable in D&D than they are in the real world.

I'll note that the biggest challenge in this type of comparison is picking the real world equivalent of a "standard" D&D diamond.

 

[Maxperson]

So... it would appear that diamonds are far more valuable in D&D than they are in the real world.

I'll note that the biggest challenge in this type of comparison is picking the real world equivalent of a "standard" D&D diamond.

I think the reason for that is like that the supply here in the real world is much greater than that of a typical D&D setting. I think that arbitrarily going with 200-250 gold per carat is fine. No need to overthink it and try and come up with equivalency in a situation that isn't equivalent.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

A fist sized diamond would be closer to the half million gold piece mark.

What I find fun is that value is really supply and demand, not inherent. That means that if you buy a diamond worth 500 gold for raise dead and then travel to a place where diamond mines are plentiful, you might find that the diamond is now worth only 250 gold and now you won't be able to bring back your comrade. You could also try to talk the DM into allowing you to use a diamond chip that your PC values at 10,000 gold, because he REALLY likes diamond chips.

Or we can just leave out economics entirely and arbitrarily assign diamonds value by size, so that no matter where you are, it has an inherent value that is usable for spells. 200 gold or 250 gold a carat seems reasonable to me.

If we go by supply & demand, diamonds able to be used for resurrection would have be highly sought after. Therefore, a 5,000 gp diamond would commonly be worth more than 5,000 gp. Introduction of supply and demand instead of god-mandated pricing was Archdevil's Mammon claim to fame and through it, it removed resurrection from the Realms.

 

[Ancalagon]

some further thought on the issue - AND something to ponder on the value of a very large gem in D&D.

Based on the work of Tolkien, 1937, a very large gem (the Arkenstone) is worth 1/14 of a LARGE dragon hoard. I honesty think that this value has a LOT to say for it .

As far as the value of a "nice" diamond, I remember the old commercials which were implying that a good diamond to give as an engagement ring would be 3 month's salary.... which, if you are a "modest" aristocrat, is about 30 gp....

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Diamonds are exceptionally common, and their value (in the real world) is massively inflated by the company with the monopoly on diamond mining artificially limiting supply to an extreme degree.

So it is weird that our fantasy worlds value diamonds in exactly the same way we do

Diamonds are not exactly "exceptionally common". They are far more common than certain other gemstones, but most things in the universe are. But yes, they do have an inflated value because the De Beers cartel both monopolized production and advertised heavily in the 20th century to convince everyone that they both needed a diamond specifically to get married and had to keep all their family's existing diamonds as heirlooms forever, lest they re-enter circulation and spoil the monopoly. That monopoly instead fell apart in the 1990s as more diamond mines began to become exploited and the De Beers Group were not able to buy or merge with all the new competitors.

It is clearly a direct grafting of our own cultural preoccupations that led to diamonds being so important in D&D, which isn't "weird", just the expected result of worldbuilding done without a high level of sophistication in a particular subject. Nevertheless the resulting mechanics make the value actually make a lot more sense in a D&D setting. The diamonds are both actually necessary for what, to most ordinary people, would be the most important spells, the ones that undo premature death, and actually consumed rather than being a durable good that people have to be convinced to hang on to. The fantasy equivalent of the De Beers Group would actually have a far more straightforward and lucrative business, given that, as much as real people will pay through the nose to conform to a bourgeois tradition invented by 1920s ad men in the service of an international cartel, it pales in comparison to what they will pay to bring a loved one back to life, and you don't need to advertise to convince them that they need that product, people have been desperate for it as long as there has been people.