D&D 4E Call a kender a kender? What should 4E "halflings" be called?

[Fifth Element]

Um .... what exactly is a "racist stereotype" about modeling fictional characters, very loosely, on an actual culture? Is it taboo to mention identifiable characteristics of actual cultures nowadays? Is showing someone wearing a kerchief and standing in front of a wagon actually some kind of call for the extermination of gypsies, and I'm just too dense to see it?

That's an overstatement, but I know what you're saying. I'm not altogether sure about it myself, but the idea is that this is the fantasy race known for taking things that don't belong to them. And despite the fact they've never been portrayed this way before, here we have them modeled after the Roma, who definitely have a negative stereotype forced upon them.

I know what you're saying, and there's no easy answer either way.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Um .... what exactly is a "racist stereotype" about modeling fictional characters, very loosely, on an actual culture?

When the portrayal is consistently inaccurate and derogatory.

In that case, I demand that a new language be invented to print all RPG books in henceforth. I find the use of English in these books to be a demeaning racial stereotype of English-speakers everywhere, and a slap in the face to Robert Cawdrey in particular.

There was actually some really funny (and very friendly, I should add) intra-English-speaking rivalry in one of the other threads here before a mod politely got the thread back on topic. It was a Canada vs. USA vs. English vs. Wales vs. Irish free-for-all, and as someone who has lived in half of those countries and has relatives in or ancestors from the others, I found it highly amusing.

But the use of English is not demeaning to anyone. And you know it's not either. Your example if a bit facetious. I would as soon suggest that EN World's use of the color black as a background was somehow demeaning to African-Americans.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Um .... what exactly is a "racist stereotype" about modeling fictional characters, very loosely, on an actual culture?

OK, pick the worst slurs about your own culture, religion, ethnic group, or whatever. (You don't have to share what it is.)

Now, taking that slur, use that as the hook for a D&D race, not to subvert it, but to make it the official flavor of a major race in the game.

Whether that slur is alcoholism, inbreeding, dishonesty, stupidity, sexual inadequacy, obesity or what have you, I suspect you wouldn't find it to be something you want to see WotC reinforcing and validating, which is what "the best rogues in the world are tiny gypsies" is doing.

 

[pawsplay]

Um .... what exactly is a "racist stereotype" about modeling fictional characters, very loosely, on an actual culture?

The same thing as modeling a fictional character, very loosely, on actual cultural norms. There is a right way to do it, and a wrong way to do it. Given it's a fantasy game that often harks back to pre-modern times, D&D can get a pass on a lot of things, but there is a line that should be trod carefully. Making halflings into pint-size gypsies, in wagons, stealing stuff, using magic to steal others' misfortune, with a secret force of murderous enforcers who attack their enemies, and secretly worshipping a shadow cult of their ostensibly LG deity, and then using homages to Renaissance art of Romani bilking gorgios as their illustration, is way, way past that line.

Imagine, if you will, that Races of Stone gave dwarves yamulkas, the beards, made them the world's premier moneylenders, assigned to them a fall from grace caused by participating in the murder of Pelor's avatar, and had them ruled by a secret order of mystics that sacrificed children in evil rituals. That ___ does not fly.

 

[kennew142]

Um .... what exactly is a "racist stereotype" about modeling fictional characters, very loosely, on an actual culture? Is it taboo to mention identifiable characteristics of actual cultures nowadays? Is showing someone wearing a kerchief and standing in front of a wagon actually some kind of call for the extermination of gypsies, and I'm just too dense to see it?

In that case, I demand that a new language be invented to print all RPG books in henceforth. I find the use of English in these books to be a demeaning racial stereotype of English-speakers everywhere, and a slap in the face to Robert Cawdrey in particular.

The last part of my post about racist stereotypes was partially tongue-in-cheek, but mostly a slam on the tendency in D&D (and game books in general) to fall into stereotypes, which can all too often be more than a little racist. The concept of favored classes itself leads to stereotypes that can easily cross the line into inappropriate imagery. It isn't that halflings are patterned on the Roma, but rather that they are patterned on the Roma and have a favored class of rogue. I was with a tour group in Italy when the tour guide began yelling at the top of lungs, "Gypsies! Stay Away!" She was actively interposing herself between some Roma youths and our group. I was so embarrassed. When I tried to bring it up to her, she told me that I was American and didn't understand.

Even leaving aside the unfortunate conflation of the Roma people and the favored class of rogue, I find race based stereotypes to be somewhat limiting in an RPG environment.

"Dwarves are greedy and surly."

"Really? All of them?"

As a GM I find them limiting. As a player I find them annoying and unhelpful.

 

[Spatula]

Exactly. And turning them into kleptomaniacs is just making it worse.

BTW, your average human, or elf, or whatever doesn't want to adventure, either. That's why the PCs are special, regardless of their race.

 

[Hairfoot]

BTW, your average human, or elf, or whatever doesn't want to adventure, either. That's why the PCs are special, regardless of their race.

I don't know where the new halflings acquired the reputation of each one champing at the bit to leave a peaceful and prosperous life to go and jump down the throat of a dragon in search of a stack of gold. Doesn't sound like a sound evolutionary develoment.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

BTW, your average human, or elf, or whatever doesn't want to adventure, either. That's why the PCs are special, regardless of their race.

I disagree. Adventuring is mostly about wanting to experience new things, to travel, to be someone important. Humans have had those desires since the beginning of time(which is most of the reason that the adventurer idea exists in the first place). There have been members of the other races portrayed like that all the time.

And in lots of stories in our own culture are filled with the boy who leaves home to discover what he can about the world.

Whereas Hobbits were always described as having a paranoid fear of change on a racial level. To the point where the idea that one would EVER want to see the rest of the world was considered a mental illness. Nevermind someone who would purposefully explore it and get into dangerous situations in the process.

 

[Hairfoot]

Whereas Hobbits were always described as having a paranoid fear of change on a racial level. To the point where the idea that one would EVER want to see the rest of the world was considered a mental illness.

That's not so. Tolkien's hobbits were insular on a social level - the social level of a cloistered, prosperous English country village in peaceful times. That description of one community at one point in time was then perpetuated in D&D until it came to represent all hobbits, in every situation and era. It was never "racial".

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I disagree. Adventuring is mostly about wanting to experience new things, to travel, to be someone important. Humans have had those desires since the beginning of time

Some humans have. I grew up moving every year to two years, and let me tell you, based on the reactions my life story gets from most people, I'd say that humans who want to adventure are just as rare as Bilbo was among hobbits.

Whereas Hobbits were always described as having a paranoid fear of change on a racial level. To the point where the idea that one would EVER want to see the rest of the world was considered a mental illness. Nevermind someone who would purposefully explore it and get into dangerous situations in the process.

Most of the people posting on ENWorld will die within 100 miles of where they were born, despite all the advances in communication and travel.

It's a silly argument against hobbits as a player character race to say that the typical member of the society doesn't want to go adventuring.