D&D 4E Call a kender a kender? What should 4E "halflings" be called?

[Hussar]

I don't fault WotC for trying to pry Halflings (the concept) away from Hobbits (the source). As such, Halflings really need their own identity. Making them a bit more Romani-like and boosting some Kender's traits is fine by me, but the name is too tied to Dragonlance.

Y'know, there's a very good point and it does fit with the other flavour we've been given. The idea of halfings as a semi-nomadic trading group DOES sound like a Romani sort of vibe. The idea that they would have a somewhat alternative concept of ownership also fits this vibe.

We're not getting Kender, we're getting Gypsies. I like it.

 

[Cam Banks]

We're not getting Kender, we're getting Gypsies. I like it.

You mean you didn't get this idea of them being gypsies in 3e? I sure did.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[pawsplay]

Y'know, there's a very good point and it does fit with the other flavour we've been given. The idea of halfings as a semi-nomadic trading group DOES sound like a Romani sort of vibe. The idea that they would have a somewhat alternative concept of ownership also fits this vibe.

We're not getting Kender, we're getting Gypsies. I like it.

OTOH, gypsy stereotypes are a sore spot for me.

 

[Hussar]

Cam - sort of. Never could make it past the klepto children though. Wanderer =/= gypsy. After all, they wander usually alone, they're not really closed to outsiders and they don't trade. Didn't sound very gypsy to me. Plus, they had zero magical element as well. And no music to speak of.

 

[the Jester]

Halflings were just hobbits with just enough paint to avoid legal issues and kender were just halflings with a fresh coat of paint and some truly obnoxious abilities tacked on at the end.

The truly obnoxious abilities (and flavor) are what make me hate kender. Every single time I have seen a pc kender in any game, they have shared the obnoxious "borrow" from the party trait. Honestly, if I was an adventurer, and someone in my group kept stealing from me, I'd leave the party or demand they left. Or, if I caught them in the act, cut off their hand or kill them. Kender "borrowing" is such an obnoxious, bad for party unity thing that I cannot imagine what the DL designers were thinking when they wrote them up back in the day. Heck, thieves (now rogues) of any race were (are) sometimes bad enough, if they are played with the same attitude.

I could do with the name "kender", were it not for the attached baggage. But that baggage is awful hard to pry loose, in my experience.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

OTOH, gypsy stereotypes are a sore spot for me.

What, you think a racist stereotype is a bad idea for WotC to carry across two editions? Perish the thought!

 

[Voss]

They were thinking it was cute. That was pretty much the extent of it. Sadly, they weren't thinking about the game, they were thinking about the novels.

Because really-

fearless= wander off and get the rest of party involved in fights they aren't prepared for

taunt= start fights in friendly/neutral places that the party isn't prepared for and doesn't want

borrowing= steal from the party (and annoy them) and steal from others, and... you guessed it, start fights the party isn't prepared for.

All backed up with cries of 'But I'm just playing my character!'

 

[Lurks-no-More]

QFT

Why try to disguise what they are?

Because, if you take the obnoxious out of a kender, you're left with a halfling. So calling them "kender" would be trying to disguise them.

 

[C.W.Richeson]

I've never had a great play experience with folk playing Kender. It's just too much chaos for my taste. I believe that just the name 'Kender' is likely to bring more chaos into my play experience, so I'm quite happy with leaving it 'Halfling' despite the changes.

 

[Cam Banks]

Tracy Hickman didn't like the idea of kender being thieves in the "I am going to rob things from you for profit" sense. He suggested that they're instead curious and end up with things in their pouches that they absentmindedly picked up or, on occasion, lifted from other people. Yes, it's obnoxious if that's all the PC kender does. It is not a design flaw. It's a problem with the player.

Dragonlance stereotypes are perpetuated by bad play. I'm convinced that if people stopped long enough to think about what they're doing they'd not be such idiots. Races of Ansalon, one of our last releases for 3.5 Dragonlance, has an entire chapter devoted to kender, their way of life, handling them in the game, playing them, alternative class features, half-kender, afflicted kender (which are more like core halflings), etc etc. Strongly recommended for anybody who thinks they're just a race of obnoxious kleptomaniacs.

Cheers,
Cam