D&D 4E Call a kender a kender? What should 4E "halflings" be called?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The concept of the untrustworthy itinerant vagabond is *perfectly acceptible* as a template for a fantasy race.

Any comparisons between Halflings and negative portrayals of gypsies, travelers, carneys or pikeys are those we infer.

Really?

They've taken mechanically the best rogues in the game in every edition and said "I know, let's take the flavor of a real world group that is stereotyped and persecuted for being untrustworthy and merge them together!"

It is WoD: Gypsy all over again. Unfortunately, the Roma are such a small ethnic group in America that most players either think they're fictional or it doesn't occur to them that they're being sold racist pap.

 

[Wolfspider]

Really?

They've taken mechanically the best rogues in the game in every edition and said "I know, let's take the flavor of a real world group that is stereotyped and persecuted for being untrustworthy and merge them together!"

It is WoD: Gypsy all over again. Unfortunately, the Roma are such a small ethnic group in America that most players either think they're fictional or it doesn't occur to them that they're being sold racist pap.

Ouch. Yeah, those pictures are pretty damning. Where are they from?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Races of the Wild.

 

[Irda Ranger]

They've taken mechanically the best rogues in the game in every edition and said "I know, let's take the flavor of a real world group that is stereotyped and persecuted for being untrustworthy and merge them together!"

Are those the only depictions of Halflings though, or just one of several? Would you have felt better about it if the halfling pickpocket was wearing a top hat or a toga?

There are so many cultures in the world (present and historical) that it's often impossible not to imply some similarity with some group.

For instance, if you assume that halflings are wanderers:
1. They can't live in houses or hill-holes. It has to be either wagons (Roma) or Yurts/Tee-pees (Mongols/Native Americans).
2. They have to have a profession that "travels well", which leaves out any fixed-position vocation such as farmer, blacksmith, miller, etc. etc. That leaves Tinker (Roma), Entertainer (Roma), Merchant (Jew) or just nomadic pastoralist (Mongol/Native Americans).

The above real-world examples are just one of many. Many other societies, including ones I'm not familiar with, I'm sure, would have fulfilled the same roles. As long as WotC mixes it up even a little bit I don't think they can afford to widely avoid every possible stereotype. If they did (1) players would be totally lost, from a cultural perspective, with no points of reference, and (2) there probably wouldn't be any good choices left.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Are those the only depictions of Halflings though, or just one of several?

It's the official version of 3E halflings in the biggest race write-up they got from WotC, in the "extended core" books. This is who 3E halflings are supposed to be by default.

The Vistani gypsies in Castle Ravenloft were turned into Vistani halflings, complete with fortune-teller, for the 3E WotC take on the matter, so it's not just the one book, in any case.

There are so many cultures in the world (present and historical) that it's often impossible not to imply some similarity with some group.

So it's random chance that they picked an ethnic group that has historically been persecuted -- including sharing space in Nazi concentration camps -- and has been singled out as untrustworthy thieves?

For instance, if you assume that halflings are wanderers:
1. They can't live in houses or hill-holes. It has to be either wagons (Roma) or Yurts/Tee-pees (Mongols/Native Americans).
2. They have to have a profession that "travels well", which leaves out any fixed-position vocation such as farmer, blacksmith, miller, etc. etc. That leaves Tinker (Roma), Entertainer (Roma), Merchant (Jew) or just nomadic pastoralist (Mongol/Native Americans).

First off, we don't have to assume they're wanderers. It's not by any means required of the race. Even if they are, you already came up with another alternative with no effort -- one which, incidentally, fits better into Races of the Wild and which doesn't share the same assumption of untrustworthiness (to "gyp," someone, as every American child knows, is to cheat them).

Secondly, the other races don't have a predefined trade. What's the profession that half-elves have? What is the racial business of half-orcs or elves?

As long as WotC mixes it up even a little bit I don't think they can afford to widely avoid every possible stereotype.

They didn't mix it up even a little bit and they narrowed in on a specific stereotype that, even today, alleges that real actual living people are, genetically or culturally, inclined to dishonesty and theft.

I suppose we're lucky that, during the writing of Races of Stone, no one said "hey, they have beards and love gold; how do you guys feel about dwarves wearing yamulkes?"

 

[Spatula]

Bring back the hobbits, IMO.

I know why they changed halflings in 3E to kender-lite, but I still don't find their reasons particularly compelling. Especially given the release of the LotR films at around the same time. It worked for Eberron (and, strangely enough, Dark Sun), where halflings are nomadic barbarians, but that's about it. Pushing them even further into being unfortunate gypsy knockoffs (only tiny! ...well, dwarf-sized, I suppose) is just compounding the mistake.

 

[pawsplay]

I think the film Willow shows that you can have knockoff halflings that are not precisely hobbits but not trite, either.

 

[Scarbonac]

While I chose the 4th option, I actually think "Trademarkable Midget Pains In The Ass" is most appropriate.

I demand Hobbit-Halflings, by Tolkien! Enough with the skinny interlopers!

 

[Aeolius]

You realize the developers were just playing with the German word for children and just swapped an e in for the i, right?
Kinder->Kender

and kender, spelled backwards, is rednek

 

[Irda Ranger]

It's the official version of 3E halflings in the biggest race write-up they got from WotC, in the "extended core" books. This is who 3E halflings are supposed to be by default.

The Vistani gypsies in Castle Ravenloft were turned into Vistani halflings, complete with fortune-teller, for the 3E WotC take on the matter, so it's not just the one book, in any case.

Ok, that's a pattern then. I don't have RotW or EtCR, so I was genuinely asking. That is a shame.

I bet you're also disappointed then to see the "overly curious, racial kleptomania" transferred over to 4E Halflings. Needless I say, that's not IMC; though mostly because it makes bad PC's, since I'm not overly concerned with the other kind of PC.

I think this is the end of this conversation though (on EN World, at any rate). WotC folks do read these forums though, so hopefully the message will get through.

I suppose we're lucky that, during the writing of Races of Stone, no one said "hey, they have beards and love gold; how do you guys feel about dwarves wearing yamulkes?"

...
I know what you're implying. I can think of a half-dozen ways the stereotype doesn't hold either. But I'll not go there. +2 Con