Call to the Four Lands

[Redclaw]

Heroes of Battle has two skills that do something similar, as well as giving an additional bonus. I think one gives access to Hide and Move Silently, as well as an initiative bonus.

 

[Scotley]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to give up wildshape for 6 skill points a level rather than the usual 4. Give up the animal companion to and you could even maybe get away with 8. I'd say gain 2 more class skills if you get 6 per level and 4 class skills if you get 8 skill points per level. If that seems too generous maybe you could give up something like trackless step as well.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Oops - double post!

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I would say either 2 additional skill points per level or 2 additional class skills/level. I'd lean toward the 2 skill points, because some skills are far more valuable than others due to the frequency with which they are used and/or whether or not they can be used 'untrained.' I'd lean toward avoiding the pitfalls of judging those questions and just give the two points/level.

On the other hand, there are classes that get lots of skill points, and one could argue that granting another class extra points would make character classes such as the Rogue less useful (or at least less vital) to a group - especially if the Rogue character was designed with the idea that he/she would be the groups 'skill monkey.' So if you want lots of class skills or lots of skill points, take a Rogue or a Ranger.

And on the third hand I don't think it's just class abilities that were taken into account when the classes were made - I think it's more complicated than that.

But on the 4th hand, in a fairly high powered Gestalt game like this one the lines are fairly well blurred already, so I'm not sure how much difference it will make - other than every player getting a character they are really happy with.

(Never ask an Elf for advice, for they will say both yes and no. Or something like that, anyway - I'm feeling too lazy to go looking through Fellowship to get the quote exactly right).

 

[Nightbreeze]

I was thinking about it a little bit, and I decided to have a look at the variant druidic classes present in Unearthed Arcana.

According to them, Wild Shape+Armor and shield proficiency are equivalent to
1) Bonus to AC when unarmed as monk
2) Fast movement as monk
3) Favored enemy as ranger
4) Swift tracker as ranger
5) Track feat.

So, wild shape is worth a lot and that make sense, considering that it turns the druid into a melee monster.

At the same time, Animal companion+Spontaneous Casting+Wild Empathy are equivalent to:
1) Rage
2) Tireless Rage
3) Fast Movement.


I know that there are some other druid variants, but I have no access to my books now.

What I want for class skills are Bluff and All knowledge skills.

Now, let's have a look at the cloistered cleric. He gets d6 HD (instead of d8) and 1/2 bab (instead of 3/4). He gains decipher script, speak languages and all knowledge skills, as well as 4 bonus skill points at each level.

I would argue that wild shape (and all it's imporvements) and animal companion are more important than a little bit reduced HD die and -1/4 bab, because in combat they offset them totally (if someone has ever played a high level druid, he knows that very well). But it would be ok for me to accept that they are equal, if you think that's too much.

So,
-Wild shape.
-Animal companion.
+All knowledge skills, speak languages and bluff.
+4 skill points at each level. (+5 or +6 if you think that wild shape and animal companion are worth more)

 

[J. Alexander]

Need to Think

I am going to have to sleep on this and think about it....especially as your moving away for key strengths of a class for a somewhat weaker overall postion at least that is my thinking for now....also i dont want to get to completated in guttinga class and reworking it etc.....so i need to think on it but right now my decision would be to allow you to take rouge only at first level and no other levels and then your two main classes....that could make up for the fact that some are playin paragons of their race.....

Anyway just my thoughts........i will let you know for sure tomorrow....

and anyone else please give your 2cent if you would like

 

[Nightbreeze]

Ok then. Just a note: it is true that I'm willing to give away my main strenght for the class, but if you allow me to pick some druidic spells out of the main books you use, it should level the field. Not the completely broken one (like owl's insight, for one), but other spells that I use, like kelpstrand. (I know druid inside out and out inside...). Besides, there's always the other class.

 

[Scotley]

Taking levels in human paragon would allow you to get any 10 class skills and make one skill a class skill later too. You wouldn't get any extra skill points that way, but there is a feat that gives you +5 skill points that you could take as the human paragon bonus feat. You could also use the +2 ability to bonus to raise Int and get more skill points as well as a +1 on all Int based skills such as knowledge. You would lose some of the higher level druid abilities and one level of spell casting as well as having slightly less powerful animal companion and wildshape. That might actually accomplish all your stated aims without having to change the druid at all.

 

[Nightbreeze]

Argh....as we want to keep it simple, couldn't we just make it a Cloistered cleric//Druid?
Then I just give up animal companion and some other minor druidic ability (like trackless step), for bluff as class skill and +2 skill points at each level. I'm going to max wisdom and intelligence anyway.

 

[J. Alexander]

nightbreeze

done