Calling all Graz'zt scholars!

[James Jacobs]

Hey everyone!

So, if you haven't heard, I'm writing a Demonomicon of Iggwilv article about Graz'zt for the shiny new online version of Dragon magazine that'll be appearing over on the Wizards of the Coast website shortly. The article's pretty much done, and I'm pretty confident I've got enough tidbits about Graz'zt's history in there already. But one thing that's struck me as I've worked on this one is that, of all D&D's demon lords, it's Graz'zt who's had the most written about him, but there's nothing (as far as I can tell) about him outside of D&D. He looks to have been created whole-cloth for the game.

Anyway, if there's any Graz'zt scholars out there who have any tidbits of lore about where he may have come from before D&D, tidbits about what you feel are super-obscure occurances of him appearing in D&D stuff, or other bits about him you particularly want explored and discussed... now's your chance to be heard!

The article's pretty late as it is, and I'm hoping to ship it off to Chris in a few days, so after that time passes any exciting tidbits posted here won't be incorperated into the article. And Chris... if you're reading this... don't send your trained troll rangers with favored enemy (freelancer +6) after me yet. I'm almost done!

(rushes back to keyboard to type!)

 

[GVDammerung]

For starters, see the Grazzt Is Everywhere thread at Canonfire. Link - http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1162&highlight=everywhere

 

[thedungeondelver]

Hey everyone!

So, if you haven't heard, I'm writing a Demonomicon of Iggwilv article about Graz'zt for the shiny new online version of Dragon magazine that'll be appearing over on the Wizards of the Coast website shortly. The article's pretty much done, and I'm pretty confident I've got enough tidbits about Graz'zt's history in there already. But one thing that's struck me as I've worked on this one is that, of all D&D's demon lords, it's Graz'zt who's had the most written about him, but there's nothing (as far as I can tell) about him outside of D&D. He looks to have been created whole-cloth for the game.

Anyway, if there's any Graz'zt scholars out there who have any tidbits of lore about where he may have come from before D&D, tidbits about what you feel are super-obscure occurances of him appearing in D&D stuff, or other bits about him you particularly want explored and discussed... now's your chance to be heard!

The article's pretty late as it is, and I'm hoping to ship it off to Chris in a few days, so after that time passes any exciting tidbits posted here won't be incorperated into the article. And Chris... if you're reading this... don't send your trained troll rangers with favored enemy (freelancer +6) after me yet. I'm almost done!

(rushes back to keyboard to type!)

Why don't you ask in Gary's Q&A thread? I'm entirely sure he could provide you with substantial information...

 

[GVDammerung]

Please see Erik Mona's alternate name for Grazzt - Vaz'zht - in Green Ronin's Armies of the Abyss at p. 29. Not sure you can use the IP but it would be cool if you could get permission and tie off the loose end as it were.

 

[Mouseferatu]

While I second the suggestion to ask Gary directly, I would say that I'm all but positive (99.5%) that Graz'zt as written is a purely D&D creation.

Now, you can find inspiration for him in real-world myth and religion. I seem to remember that a common image for witch's "black sabbaths" involves the practitioners calling up a form of Satan (or other demon) that took the form of a black-skinned handsome man. (I cannot remember enough details to find sources on this; hopefully someone else can back me up.) Given Graz'zt's sensual nature, I can see this having been part of the inspiration.

 

[GVDammerung]

Please see Erik Mona's alternate name for Grazzt - Vaz'zht - in Green Ronin's Armies of the Abyss at p. 29. Not sure you can use the IP but it would be cool if you could get permission and tie off the loose end as it were.

See also Vaz'zht subsequently named in Green Ronin's The Unholy Warrior's Handbook at . 57.

 

[James Jacobs]

I should have mentioned, of course, the fact that since this is going in Dragon, I can't use material from non-official sources. Including alternate Graz'zt-type stuff from Green Ronin products, or most (well... all) of the development he got in Gygax's Gord novels, such as the Abbat-Dolor.

And I have pretty good access to Erik Mona's brain, in any event, on all things demonic. I know where he lives and works and tries to hide from fans and all that, after all.

And that Graz'zt is Everywhere thread is good stuff, by the way. Because, he is! He's all over D&D like stink on a monkey. Which is one of the reasons this one's kind of a pill to write, especially since I don't just want to parrot and re-say what's already been said about him for the entire article. Of course, making up new stuff about him is tough too, since it has to not contradict what's already known about him...

I DO have a pretty wild idea about who Graz'zt's dad is, though. His mom's certainly Pale Night, of course, but dad to this point has been curiously absent.

 

[grodog]

James---

You probably already know/have read the info I have on Graz'zt, but here's a pointer
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4.html to my main S4 page, and to the original S4 tourney version info @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4.html#bg and http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4_encounters.html

The other main site would be Chris Siren's Gord Greyhawk info @ http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/outer.html#grazzt and http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/outer.html#abyss

My stuff @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_abyss_geneaology.html and http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_abyss_planes.html is homebrew

There's no entry for Graz'zt in Davidson's Dictionary of Angels, nor in Spence's Encyclopedia of Occultism, and I am not familiar with any real-world mythological source/origin for him. So I tend to agree that EGG created him from whole cloth.

 

[thedungeondelver]

There's no entry for Graz'zt in Davidson's Dictionary of Angels, nor in Spence's Encyclopedia of Occultism, and I am not familiar with any real-world mythological source/origin for him. So I tend to agree that EGG created him from whole cloth.

Toben's Spirit Guide?

 

[ivocaliban]

And that Graz'zt is Everywhere thread is good stuff, by the way. Because, he is! He's all over D&D like stink on a monkey. Which is one of the reasons this one's kind of a pill to write, especially since I don't just want to parrot and re-say what's already been said about him for the entire article. Of course, making up new stuff about him is tough too, since it has to not contradict what's already known about him...

I don't envy you in this chore, but I am anxious to see the final product.

I DO have a pretty wild idea about who Graz'zt's dad is, though. His mom's certainly Pale Night, of course, but dad to this point has been curiously absent.

Strange that I never gave this much thought until you mentioned it, but "someone" immediately came to mind as soon as I read this paragraph. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Good luck to you!