Cambion: Worst writeup ever?

[Psion]

So is someone going to step up to the plate and write up the Cambion as it should have been?

There's a Cambion write-up in Tome of Horrors.

Wouldn't be too hard to redo Rule-of-Three using it.

 

[jgbrowning]

Boy, do I respect honesty -- and I can certainly deal a lot better with an honest error. Thanks!

My opinion as well! Things get missed, but openly saying one's missed the mark is a sign that it was honestly missed.

joe b.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Thanks Monkey King, your honest response proves your integrity as a writer.

On a positive note, I really like some things in your write up.

Silent Metal.

The right amount of Hit Dice for Cambion plus appropriate skills.

There's good things to take from this.

 

[Grazzt]

So is someone going to step up to the plate and write up the Cambion as it should have been?

Something like... (bit different than the one I did for Tome 1...but it works)

Cambion
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 6d8+18 (45 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (+3 Dex, +4 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 13, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+10
Attack: Masterwork longsword +12 melee (1d8+4, 19-20/x2)
Full Attack: Masterwork longsword +12/+7 melee (1d8+4, 19-20/x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to poison and electricity, outsider traits, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, spell resistance 16, silent armor, telepathy 100 ft.
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 4
Skills: Balance +1*, Climb +13, Diplomacy -1, Escape Artist +1*, Gather Information +6, Hide +12, Intimidate +6, Listen +13, Move Silently +12, Search +9, Sense Motive +7, Spot +13, Survival +7, Swim +0*, Tumble +1*
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Environment: The Abyss
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: 7-12 HD (Medium) or by character class
Level Adjustment: +4

*Skill includes a -2 armor check penalty (-4 on Swim checks).

Combat
A cambion's natural weapons, as well as any weapon it wields, are treated as chaotic-aligned and evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will---detect magic, fear (DC 15); 7/day---levitate; 3/day---alter self; . Caster level 6. The save DCs are Intelligence-based.

Silent Armor (Ex) A cambion does not receive an armor check penalty on Climb, Hide, or Move Silently checks.

Telepathy (Su): A cambion can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language.

Skills: Cambions have a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

Favored Class: Rogue
Ability Score Adjustments (Cambions as Characters): Str +8, Dex +6, Con +6, Int +2, Wis -4, Cha -6



** I listed favored class as "Rogue", but I think he works pretty well as a fighter:


Cambion, Ftr5: CR 10; SZ M Outsider [Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar]; HD 6d8+18 plus 5d10+15; hp 87; Init +7; Spd 40 ft.; AC 23 (+3 Dex, +4 natural, +6 +2 chain shirt), touch 13, flat-footed 20; BAB/Grap +11/+15; Atk +18 melee (1d8+6, +2 longsword, 19-20/x2); Full Atk +18/+13/+8 melee (1d8+6, +2 longsword, 19-20/x2); SA spell-like abilities; SQ damage reduction (5/cold iron or good), darkvision (60 ft.), immunity to poison and electricity, outsider traits, resistances (acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10), SR 16, telepathy (100 ft.), silent metal; AL CE; SV Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +6; Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 4.

Skills: Balance +2*, Climb +17, Diplomacy -1, Escape Artist +2*, Gather Information +6, Hide +16, Intimidate +11, Listen +13, Move Silently +16, Search +9, Sense Motive +8, Spot +13, Survival +7, Swim +2*, Tumble +2*.

Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword).

 

[Pants]

You know... I've kinda come to like the cambion write-up a little. Sure, the 'for characters' part is bad, but as explained in the text, cambions have a reason to exist alongside half-fiends. The low Cha is made up by the inclusion of the baron and marquis cambions (a little nod that I appreciate!). I'll probably get some use out of it after a little rejiggering.

The picture is also cool and it reminds me of the 1e/2e cambion quite a bit.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

The reality is, sometimes material is weaker than it should be. Sometimes no one catches a dud monster. My sincere apologies for the train wreck on this creature. Though it went through many hands, ultimately I'm the one who said "Let's redo the cambion!".

I completely Understand. Stuff sometimes Slips thorough (I do Project Oversight and Authorization Request Reports, you'd be amazed what can slip through all the way to the top; even more amazed at what doesn't get noticed even then).

So, crap happens.

This monster is more of a First Draft that sneaked its way in.

Really obvious just how bad it is.

So who in the Nine Hells decided "Let's put the really, really poorly thought out part that somehow managed to make it all the way to print without anyone noticing & use it as one of the Key Selling points!"

Its a FREAKIN' WEB PREVIEW for crying out loud!

You want to put out the strongest stuff you've got to pull people in.

Who chooses the Stuff for the Previews & don't they understand D&D?

That worries me a lot more than the Cambin itself.

That Marketing seemed to think that was one of the Strongest parts of the Book.

I think you aught to Force the Entire Marketing Department to learn how to Play D&D. Weekly Play Sessions til they at least understand it.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Nice write-up Scott.

I was biased, and was only ever interested in Marquis Cambions ( ), so
here's my attempt are creating what I want to see in a Cambion to capture
to (2e) feel that drew me to them.

My Cambion (Marquis):

* +4 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +0 Wisdom, +4 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* A cambion’s base land speed is 40 feet.
* Darkvision 60ft.
* Racial Hit Dice: A cambion begins with six levels of outsider, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +5, and Will +5.
* Racial Skills: A cambion’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 9 × (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (local), Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot and Tumble.
* Racial Feats: A cambion’s outsider levels give it three feats.
* +2 natural armor bonus.
* Demon Traits: Immunity to electricity and poison, Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, Telepathy 100ft.
* Proficiency: Cambions are automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all types of armor and shields (excluding tower shields).
* Special Qualities: Sorcerous Nature, Bonus Spells, Silent Metal.
* Automatic Languages: Abyssal. Bonus Languages: Celestial, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Infernal.
* Favored class: Rogue.
* Level adjustment +6.

Sorcerous Nature
A cambion casts divine spells as a 6th-level sorcerer. Any levels in the Sorcerer class stack with this ability.

Bonus Spells
A cambion gains to following spells above and beyond the spells known for a sorcerer of their level: 0 - Detect Magic / 1 - Charm Person / 2 - Alter Self, Invisibility, Levitate

Silent Metal
A cambion suffers no armor penalties on Hide and Move silently checks.

edit: btw, I have no game design experience, and this is one of my first times I've put a concept on public display.

edit: I was also thinking Armored Caster, like a Warmage, might be appropriate. And with a feat, can imporved that to medium armor. Opinions?

 

[Razz]

What about the Abyssal Giant?

Apparently, it's missing a possible special quality entry? It states under "Knowledge Check" that abyssal giants are immune to slashing weapons, but it's listed no where in its stat block.

And what the hell is a Wild Hunter?

 

[daemonslye]

I wrote Expedition to the Demonweb Pits under a very, very tight deadline, and worked very hard to deliver the best manuscript possible in the timeframe.

Thanks for this (very human and honest) response. This makes a difference in the way I review the material.

~D

 

[Engilbrand]

For the record, I want to point out that this is NOT the first time that a Favored Class hasn't been normal. While I could point to the Gnome having a specialized Wizard, I will instead point to the Nazthrune (?) Rakshasa from the Monster Manual 3, I believe, which also has Assassin as its favored class.