"Campaign..meh, but I like my character"

[Dragon Snack]

something that hasn't been mentioned is that there's more to a campaign than a player and a dm, there's also the other players...

Quite true, my post above did touch on that a bit tangentally.

I think the player who I worked with to create our backgrounds actually played a "side game" of sorts, interacting with each other despite what the others were doing. It was enough to keep us involved in the game for a while at least.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, since I really do want to play again...

 

[Umbran]

It's probably very evil of me, but when players tend to do the above, I usually force links to the campaign on them -- a half-brother they never knew they had, somebody from their orphanage, an uncle who is secretly a Demon worshipper, etc. Unless they're opting for the "tragic loner searching for a place to call home" card, I don't let 'em get away with being a randomly-inserted cardboard hero.

Not evil at all.

I am going to be playing in a live-action game campaign, for which the GMs have requested extensive backgrounds. They have asked, very clearly, that we note in those backgrounds the things we don't want the GMs mucking about with. If we don't note it as inviolate, they reserve the right to violate it

Similarly, if there are things we do want them to muck with, we are encouraged to note that as well.

So, as the saying goes - "We demand clearly defined regions of doubt and uncertainty!"

 

[F5]

An important part of getting the players invested in the game is as simple as giving them what they want. If a player is not interested in interacting with townsfolk in the nearby village, for example, no amount of back-story and NPC development is going to make it interesting for them. Likewise, the character who has been created as a city-rat, with numerous connections to his hometown is going to get frustrated quickly with a series of wilderness adventures in a faraway frontier, no matter how cool the wilderness there is.

I've had DMs who say "roll up a character and give me at least a paragraph of back-story", and then crafted an interesting an involving game around them. These were fun. I've also had DMs that ignored back-story, and shoe-horned characters that didn't really fit into their pre-imagined game. These were... less fun.

DMs should be up-front with the players regarding the direction of the campaign, so they can craft appropriate PCs, but they also have to be flexible enough to change that direction so it matches up better with where the player wants to go.

 

[DonTadow]

"Campaign..meh, but I like my character"

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I've noticed when folks are talking about a game they are not that invested in, they will inevitably say, but I like my character.

The purpose of this thread is to try to figure out why we (the players) don't put the same effort into buying into the campaign as we do into the character. IMO, one without the other is sorta pointless.

Have you noticed this in your own groups?

Too many DMs get caught up in their own machinations and forget the pcs are not just people in the campaign, they make up the campaign. There are far too many DMs trying to write the next Lord of the rings instead of designing solid adventures for the PCs that revolve around them. Even with modules, Dms don't even try to incorporate the player, so players interests are less vested and all that is important is the character.

When my players come to me with a background, if there are gaping holes I'll fill them, and I'll pull from their background parts i could fit into the campaign, not vice versa. Forcing campaign elements on a player just to get them interested is railroading and becomes a short term solution.

 

[Greg K]

For me as a player, the DM needs

A) to work out the details of his world
1. religion:
- who are the gods?
-what are their domains?
- what is their relationship with one another
-what does each deity expect of its worshippers behaviorally? Having this preplanned lets players of clerics, paladins, know what is and is not considered proper behavior.

2. geography: Even if just major countries, rivers, forests, mountains etc.

3) cultures:
- What are the cultures?
- What are the cultures like? How do they differ in subsistance, social structure, religous practice (shamanism, polytheistic, etc.), method of exchange, mores, and technology? How do they dress and what type of body adornment is common? Is anything regarding clothing or body adornment restricted to certain social status or membership in certain organizations.


- What are their relations like with neighboring peoples.
- what classes and or class variants are found within each culture and which are restricted?

3) Some major organizations for each each culture:
-what are some major organizations and/or orders for each culture
- are they known? If so, locally or more widespread
- how are members distinguished by certain styles of dress, specific articles of clothing, or symbols.
- what are their behavioral requirement if any
- who are some prominent NPCs

4) work out some other major NPCs for the cultures

5) work out other aspects (e.g., politics, warfare, strange happenings, etc.) that affect various areas.

6) come up with some interesting locales for possible adventuring. They don't all need to be fleshed out, but they give character places to consider for later.


B) Sit down with me during generation and help build a character that will fit into the world
1) provide a one or two sentence description of each culture along with a list of available classes and races to each culture.
2) Once, I have some ideas of what I might want to play, give me further campaign specific info to help me narrow my choices or tailor my character. More detail on the cultures (e.g., some general cultural attitudes and social mores). Info on what organizations might the chararacter need to belong to and what they are like. If I am a religious class or character what are the deities like? What are the domains and teachings? What other details I might need to know?
3) Once, I narrow down my choice, give me some more information so I can fine tune my character.
a) If the character belongs to an organization, who do I know? What is special in terms of dress or adornment that signifies me as a member of an organization.
b) if he or she don't belong to an organization, who trained my character? If the trainer must be someone special (e.g., a particular NPC wizard in my region due to lack of magic wielders), who is it? If trainers are common, then that gives me a little more flexability in background.
c) what are local or regional events that of importance? If we are at war or were at war in the recent past, I may use this to influence my character's attitude towards a particular race, region, organization, etc. or I may use such knowledge as a motivation for adventuring or just as general personality. Then again, I may not, but at least it it gives me some more knowledge to draw from and gives me a little more knowledge of my character's homeland.

d) Once, I finalize my background, work with me to make any final tweaks

4) Provide me with some other starting knowledge based upon my background.
- What are some things that a character knows just by growing up in a particular culture, region that would not be available to someone from another culture or region without an appropriate knowledge skill?

- What special knowledge might I have from training with someone special or belonging to an organziation that a normal person from my culture would not have?

edit:
5) Let my character and the party go where decide they want to go (assuming it is plausible and they have the means to get there).

I don't mind an intro adventure that unites the characters preferably if draws them together based on the character's motivations and/or backgrounds. However, once the party is together, let them make their own way in the word. Let them seek out adventures of their choosing. Let them make their own friends and enemies based upon their own choices and actions- even if those new friends and enemies are merely individuals who have caught wind of the players exploits and would react accordingly.

 

[GreatLemur]

I'm a big proponent of letting the players have a hand in defining the setting.

In my current D&D game, the DM started the world off somewhat vague and undefined, and let the PCs' backgrounds establish a lot of major elements. At least three countries, several human ethnic groups, a pile of gods, the party's initial meeting place, and a weird magical material (which looks to be figuring prominently into the plot) all came from the players. The DM has been using the Rogue--whose independently-conceived concept revolves around him being blessed and cursed with uncontrollable fits of prophesy--as a major plot device. Our Fighter is a pirate, and it looks like there'll be other pirates in the story to connect with her own backstory.

So, yeah, I think all of us players are well hooked into the campaign. We contributed to the setting and the plot, so the all-important "buy in" is pretty much automatic.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Perhaps at the most basic level many of us feel that 'any game is better than no game', and even if a particular campaign doesn't really float our boat for whatever reason, playing in it is still better than not playing at all - and in that kind of situation perhaps enjoyment of the character/character concept is the most significant source of enjoyment?

 

[Greg K]

Perhaps at the most basic level many of us feel that 'any game is better than no game', and even if a particular campaign doesn't really float our boat for whatever reason, playing in it is still better than not playing at all - and in that kind of situation perhaps enjoyment of the character/character concept is the most significant source of enjoyment?

I don't understand that reasoning. If I am not enjoying the game, I would rather not play- No game is better than staying in a game that I don't enjoy. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I love Henry's idea of letting the players define the town they come from (maybe only neighborhood/district if from a city). That is being yoinked if I ever get back to DMing.

The hard part is when you have a mix of players in a group. My old group had eight players. Four gave me great material to use in working them into the world. The other four gave me characters who were defined by their stats and weapons and that was pretty much it. This wasn't only background info, it was also things during the campaign that defined their characters as more than a set of die rolls in combat.

A few months into the campaign a couple of the latter four complained to me that all the interesting things were related to the characters of the first four. I explained that if they gave me a little something to work with I would be able to involve them a little more. All I got back was what PrCs or magic items they wanted.

What I noticed about myself as DM was that I had a great time weaving personal details of those first four into the campaign. The flip side was I agonized over trying to find ways to invest the others in the game. I knew I was playing favorites and it bothered me.

When three of the first four players moved away, I lost interest in keeping the campaign running as did the player of the last "character with character" since he enjoyed interacting with other characters as much as or more than with NPCs, but the remaining players just didn't play along enough to suit him.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't understand that reasoning. If I am not enjoying the game, I would rather not play- No game is better than staying in a game that I don't enjoy. I have better things to do with my time.

You seem to be missing the point. In between "game I don't enjoy" and "game that r0xx0rs my s0xx0rs," you have categories like "games I mostly enjoy," "games I enjoy," and "games I enjoy a lot." It is not difficult to find yourself in a game you mostly enjoy, playing a character you think would be awesome in a game that was also totally awesome.