Can a dozen orcs challenge a 17th level party?

[Twinswords]

Ok they kill these puny orcs. Fine let them. Now the real evil guys just got some more time to complete ye epic evil plot or to slaugther a town. Let them see this. Offcourse they can walk off killing a petty threat, but it will hurt in the long run.

 

[IcyCool]

You might want to consider getting the party to split up. A 17th level wizard will simply annihilate a large group of orcs. Send him off to defend the castle, send the rogue in to assassinate a few important orcs, send the fighter off to storm the orc defenses. Otherwise, it will be remarkably difficult to ensure that all of your players get an action.

 

[kigmatzomat]

That'll teach them to use their abilities .. but of course, 17th level party would probably teach that high-priest/archangel/elemental some basic humility

Seriously, you like your gods that 'hands-on'?

It's one thing to use Control Winds once the orcs attack but to simply make the weather nice all the time? Seems like an abuse of a power. Like using create water instead of going over to the well.

As for the hands-on approach, does your game have good gods send clerics/minions out to whomp on those doing evil? Do evil gods send clerics/minions out to do evil? Chaos gods to wreak havoc? Law gods to form order?

If you go around screwing with the weather, specifically making everything nice and purty, you are stomping on the weather/storm god's purvue as much or moreso than killing babies irritates a god of good & life. He's not good or evil per se, he likes storms. And these little nuisances keep stopping them. Gods of the storm should be fairly capricious and prone to overreaction so sending a messenger with Mark o Justice is actually fairly restrained. Proper Deus Ex Machina for a god of storms should be the thunderbolt from the blue when they get on his nerves.

 

[IcyCool]

It's one thing to use Control Winds once the orcs attack but to simply make the weather nice all the time? Seems like an abuse of a power. Like using create water instead of going over to the well.

Heck yes. I'd totally use create water to fill my glass instead of getting up and walking to the kitchen. Also, I'd use mage hand for when I've lost the remote. I'd make my beagle or my mancoone my familiar, and I'd totally have unseen servants load the dishwasher.

 

[ForceUser]

I think you're approaching this encounter from the wrong angle, maggot. I would not have the orcs attack the party. I would have the party attack the orcs. I agree with an earlier poster--orcs are not so stupid that they can't look at a group of obviously superior foes in shining armor and glowing cloaks with levitating sorcerers on phantom steeds and fail to get the point. However, you can still build this encounter in a way that is a satisfying "F*ck yeah!" to the players for all the hardships these orc raiders put on them in their early years.

If I were designing this encounter, I would have the traveling PCs come across a burned-out village, still smoldering, that had been ravaged by an orc raid. I would make it grim, with burnt corpses of little girls with pigtails. I would make the size, strength, and disposition of the orc raiders patently obvious, as well as the direction in which they had headed with captured loot and slaves. I would prepare an orc lair with, say, 200 orcs in a tribe, including a 6th-level chieftain, 4th-level shaman, etc. on down the line to the orc females and whelps. Then I would simply sit back and watch the fireworks as the PCs put some vengeful, well-deserved, and oh-so-sweet arse-whupping on the unsuspecting orcs. I would make sure that a few members of the tribe survived the PCs' onslaught (probably because they weren't present at the time), and I would allow those orcs to circulate rumors throughout the region about the terrifying, godlike orc-slaying devils. I would then, after an appropriate amount of in-game time, allow those rumors to reach the ears of the PCs. Nothing will sound so sweet to them as that.

That's how I'd do it. Think big, man.

 

[maggot]

If I were designing this encounter, I would have the traveling PCs come across a burned-out village, still smoldering, that had been ravaged by an orc raid.

While this is good if I wanted to run this entire thing as an adventure, I don't. Also, since the point of the encounter is realism, one might ask why there were no burned-out, still smoldering villages when the party was 4th level.

Also, the party teleports or windwalks everywhere. They are 17th level after all. They will never happen across an ambush or a smoldering village. I suppose they could spot the smoldering village from the air, if they were windwalking, but they would generally teleport to a location they know instead of taking the "long way".

The party has been in a border town attacked by orcs. So using that scenario again works. And they have reason to be in this town, so they cannot teleport past the encounter.

 

[ForceUser]

While this is good if I wanted to run this entire thing as an adventure, I don't. Also, since the point of the encounter is realism, one might ask why there were no burned-out, still smoldering villages when the party was 4th level.

Also, the party teleports or windwalks everywhere. They are 17th level after all. They will never happen across an ambush or a smoldering village. I suppose they could spot the smoldering village from the air, if they were windwalking, but they would generally teleport to a location they know instead of taking the "long way".

The party has been in a border town attacked by orcs. So using that scenario again works. And they have reason to be in this town, so they cannot teleport past the encounter.

I wouldn't call it an adventure so much as a side quest. Even with 200 orcs, the whole shebang shouldn't take them more than half a session to resolve, and most of that would be planning. As for why there were no smoldering villages at 4th level, well, it's your world, but I could easily explain this away in my world by deciding that they just hadn't happened to come across such villages at 4th level. If you're trying to maintain verisimilitude, one way of doing so is by keeping the PCs aware that the world doesn't revolve around them. Events transpire in places far away while they're doing other things. I'd probably just say "Oh, this happened a lot when you were 4th level, you guys heard of it happening, but you never encountered it before."

All that said, yes, the teleportation issue is a problem, though a minor one. My scenario could be easily modified to accomodate teleportation as follows: when they teleport into town, have it swarming with refugees who fled the orc attack upon their village, which is located nearby. The refugees will have horrible stories to tell of their ordeal, and bam, off the PCs go to end the orcs' threat once and for all. Half an hour to an hour later in the session, 200 orcs are dead and the PCs have expended perhaps 1/4 of their resources. When it comes to D&D I can explain away almost anything.

I sense a bit of resistance to my suggestion, so I'll just sum up by saying good luck! I hope the encounter, however you decide to approach it, is gratifying for your players.

 

[Anson Caralya]

Maggot, I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Your characters want to fight 12 typical orcs, no bells and whistles, for the sake of mopping up opponents who can't possibly challenge them. You're saying you're going to do that for them. Most replies are

trying to give you bells and whistles to make it at least something of a fight,
explaining why it can't possibly be an interesting fight (my vote), or
asking why you would possibly want to do this.

If you're set on doing it and don't want bells and whistles, is there something we can provide here? Sorry if I seem frustrated, but I feel like I'm missing something here.

 

[maggot]

I sense a bit of resistance to my suggestion, so I'll just sum up by saying good luck! I hope the encounter, however you decide to approach it, is gratifying for your players.

I'm sorry. I appreciate the input. I really do, it's just that your approach is not what I'm looking for. As I said in my first post, I'm looking for an attack by a dozen first-level orcs on a party of 17th level characters. Your approach is good, but does not meet that criteria.

Thanks.

 

[maggot]

If you're set on doing it and don't want bells and whistles, is there something we can provide here? Sorry if I seem frustrated, but I feel like I'm missing something here.

I am looking for bells and whistles, but not changes to the entire encounter structure. I appreciate all the input, but I can only use some of it. For example, the suggestion to have the orcs attack at night to use their darkvision is a good one, and one I can use. The suggestion to turn the dozen orcs into a horde of orcs is also good, but not one that I can use.

In any case, all the info is valuable, if only for future encounters. Thanks again to you and everyone who posted.