Can a Lawful Good character be flexible and fun to play?

[concerro]

I'm fairly new to the rpg world, and I've never played a Lawful Good character before, but I'm considering starting a paladin for a Carrion Crown game. I like the paladin, but every time I've seen someone play a LG character they seem to act like mindless evil-smiting drones.

Ex: If it's evil I must smite it, regardless of mission or weighing what the greater evil might be. There are no gray areas. All responses are dictated clearly by my alignment. Evil must be destroyed, good must be upheld. I can't punch someone in the face if I get angry, unless they are evil. I can't have any desires or goals beyond destroying evil.

I just feel like if I play a Paladin, the alignment sucks out all of the flavor and personality that a character could have.

I've considered combining other classes or choosing a prestige class with similar abilities and flavors, but I really like the paladin. It's just the dang alignment that feels like a roadblock to having a good time with the character. Someone convince me that I've just never seen a LG character played right. Examples would be helpful.

It depends on your GM. Some people believe lawful characters in general are drones who can't have their own thoughts. Talk to your GM. I can only tell you how things go in my game which won't help if the GM shuts you down.

 

[thundershot]

I have one character who proves that "Lawful Good" doesn't have to mean "Lawful Nice". He fights for justice and believes in doing great deeds, but he doesn't want any recognition and tries to keep people at a distance. He's tough and gruff. He believes in a Lawful Good society. He's just not nice.

 

[kcmopd1913]

Our gaming group actually put together a code for Paladin's, maybe it can be useful to you. Now as for any LG characters, talk to your DM, but like I said maybe this will help for Paladins.

"The Paladins code is by no means an oath that one accepts lightly. To be a Paladin is to exhibit the best qualities in men, and display none of their weaknesses. Many men try, but cannot live up to the ideals of the code and as such falter. All Paladins adhere to said code without regret or remorse. There are many knights in the world, many noble men. But very few of these are Paladins. Paladins are shining beacons of hope, in an otherwise dark world. They are both feared and respected by their enemies, precisely because they alone adhere to this unwavering code. This code shall be adhered to at all times even if doing so leads to your death.
• Faith: Serve always the true lord your god. Keep faith in your beliefs, for faith roots you and gives you hope against the despair that human failings, and the darkness of the world create. Paladins apply their faith to all aspects of their life. In addition to assisting their church, they freely lend aid to others, and take it as an opportunity to spread the good will that their faith has given them. Men often lose hope, and Paladins aspire to instill hope and goodwill to all.
• Hope: Bring light and hope to all parts of the world. Seek out evil in all of its forms, stand before it, and vanquish it without pause or remorse. Paladins are the sword of the gods. Without question they are both hated and feared by all who fear the powers of good. In most cases Paladins are the primary targets when involved in a confrontation with evil, even more so then clerics. This is because the Paladins unending thirst to destroy evil, is widely known.
• Defense: Seek always to defend the weak, your liege, your nation, your family, and those to whom you believe worthy of your loyalty. Paladins will always protect those they see as innocent or weak, friends, family, or those they serve. If a Paladin were to come upon a burning building and hear screams inside, he would without pause or thought of his own well being, charge into the building and attempt to help its occupants.
• Loyalty: Be known for unwavering commitment to the people and ideals you choose to live by. There are many places where compromise is expected; loyalty is not amongst them. Paladins are always loyal to those they associate with. If a friend was captured and taken to a castle to be tortured for information, the friend need not worry, for it is understood that the Paladin will do all in his power to find and rescue him.
• Prowess: Seek excellence in all endeavors expected of a knight, martial and otherwise, seeking strength to be used in the service of justice, rather than in personal accomplishment. Paladins seek to be excellent in all that they do. If a Paladin uses a sword, he attempts to master the sword. Every day he will train or engage in warfare, and it is likely will never stop in that endeavor, until of course he cannot find an equal in that skill. This is true with any pursuit be it weapon play, or dancing. For this reason, Paladins choose their activities wisely.
• Justice: Seek always the path of 'right', unencumbered by bias or personal interest. Recognize that the sword of justice can be a terrible thing, so it must be tempered by humanity and mercy. If the 'right' you see agrees with others, and you seek it out without bending to the temptation for expediency, then you will earn renown beyond measure. Paladins uphold the law, and seek to ensure others do the same. A Paladin will only intentionally break a law, if he deems the law to be unjust, and even then he would rather seek to change the law then to break it outright.
• Courage: Always speak the truth, and have the strength to take the side of truth in all matters, rather than seeking the expedient lie. Seek the truth whenever possible, but remember to temper justice with mercy, or the pure truth can bring grief. Paladins do not lie. Paladins seek truth in all aspects of their life. They will not abide liers, and will often not wish to associate themselves with those that do.
• Courtesy: At all times be courteous to women, for they hold the power to breathe life into the world, and should be respected for such a gift. Paladins will always be respectful of women. Even if said woman is an enemy.
• Humility: Be humble before others, especially superiors. Be not boastful. Value first the contributions of others; do not boast of your own accomplishments, let others do this for you. Tell the deeds of others before your own, according them the renown rightfully earned through virtuous deeds. Paladins do not undertake dangerous assignments for the glory. They leave the glory to be had by others.
• Largesse: Be generous in so far as your resources allow; largesse used in this way counters gluttony. It also makes the path of mercy easier to discern when a difficult decision of justice is required. Paladins are very generous with their worldly possessions. Money, clothing, food, all are given to those in need. Many Paladins are remembered for their seemingly unending generosity.
• Nobility: Seek great stature of character by holding to the virtues and duties of a knight, realizing that though the ideals cannot be reached, the quality of striving towards them ennobles the spirit, growing the character from dust towards the heavens. Nobility also has the tendency to influence others, offering a compelling example of what can be done in the service of rightness. Paladins view nobility not as a birthright, but as something that each man must earn. Aspiring to greatness lifts the spirit. Paladins act in a matter befitting the best of nobility at all times.
• Mercy: Show mercy to defeated enemies. Mercy is not for the weak. It takes the strongest of men to refrain from killing a foe, and such strength does not go unnoticed. When an enemy falls and cowers before a Paladin, the Paladin will grant him mercy, and not take his life. Instead he will take all power from the enemy, ensuring he can do no more harm. In many cases this implies returning the foe to civilization to serve trial. The outcome of which is not the Paladins concern.
• Franchise: Seek to emulate this code as sincerely as possible, not for the reason of personal gain but because it is right. Do not restrict your exploration to a small world, but seek to infuse every aspect of your life with these qualities. Should you succeed in even a tiny measure then you will be well remembered for your quality and virtue. Not only will the Paladin live by the words of this code (or the letters of the law), he will also strive unendingly to live by its ideals (the spirit of the law). Paladins hope to die in service of the powers of good, so that their death is remembered, and inspires others to rise up and take their place against the forces of darkness."

By the way this is already copyrighted material already published in a game book I put together, for all your pirates out there, ARRGGGGGG

 

[Dingo333]

"Can a lawful good charracter be flexible..."

To a degree yes. The lawful good character must adhere to their moral codes (for example Good: dont torture, murder, attack without provocation, enslave). They are more likely (and expected) to obey their word and the word of others who have power over them (kings, high ranking knights, their captains, high ranking paladins etc).

This means if they enter a kingdom where slavery is protected by law, the paladin has a moral descission whether to break the law to help the slaves, or obey the local laws and walk on. This doesn't mean they can't work against an evil king but it does restrict how they can (no assassins for example but a yes to mounting a crusade).

"Can a lawful good character be..... and fun to play?"

Yes, they can. You don't have to be "Is it evil? smiting evil" though this can be fun. A person in our group is a paladin, and he is playing it as his quirk "must smite all evil" which has lead to him smiting an evil stone and snapping a couple wands of spells with evil descriptors. It is sometimes funny to watch, sometimes annoying but always interesting. Another way to play would be the staunch defender type of LG, where they will repeatedly put their life on the line to save allies (not necessarily to kill the evil thing)

 

[Haltherrion]

I think many people play paladins as LAWFUL/good, meaning they feel compelled to stress adherence to rules and conventions over anything else. L/G is as much good as lawful (and maybe more so if you lawful/GOOD ). One way to break out of the mold would simply be to stress your goodness over your lawfulness.

In any case, to me, lawful and good simply capture how much a character considers norms & societal rules and well-being of others in their actions. It doesn't make them a robot, it just means they tend to consider these things. Paladins being paladins, they ought to generally consider them and act on them alot but in the end they have free will.

Additionally, there are cases where the two conflict and you can use this to define your character. Most people playing a paladin seem to want to defer to law over good but who says it has to be that way? For example, in the case of a prince loving a commoner in a kingdom that forbids such interactions, who is to say the well-being of the lovers doesn't trump the law?

In matters purely of law, it is common for the paladin to play the annoying prude who continually calls out other players. But it would be just as lawful to take the offender aside in private and guide them to more lawful behavior than to turn them over to the authorities or make a fuss if no one is really being harmed by the actions.

In short, think of a model of lawful/good that works for your paladin concept and execute to that. You can be true to lawful/good without having to be playing the self-righteous, gad-fly.

 

[Tovec]

As far as the root question of is LG fun? Yes.

As far as the secondary question of how to not be a d***annoying well that's a little harder. What I try and remind my players is to adhere to the Jack O'Neill code of conduct. If he wouldn't be okay with it, neither would I. If he wouldn't do it. Don't.

Basically it follows the same basic code as all other paladins but it means don't be a ... nnoying.
Don't kill people who don't deserve it. Take prisoners or try and reform any possible.
Don't use underhanded tactics, whenever possible that is Don't sacrifice the innocent for the "greater good". Unless it really REALLY is the greater good.
Stuff like that.

 

[DragonLancer]

I always describe Paladins in my games as Arthurian knights. Yes, you are lawful good but that doesn't stop you having desires and goals of your own. It doesn't stop you drinking ale, sneaking past the evil guards or punching the guy who insulted your honour but isn't worthy to challenge to honourable combat.

 

[Nimloth]

Grok; consult with the other players and the DM before making your paladin. A paladin in a good group is usually fine, but if someone wants to play a morally ambiguous necromancer or other shady character it WILL ruin the game unless EVERYBODY is onboard with this plan. If you can't get everybodies agreement on playing a paladin*, you should reconsider. I know it's "not fair" and "I should be able to play what I want", but for the good of the game, certain classes should not be allowed in the same group.

Once I played (RL with friends) a "willingly naive" paladin in a group with a CN(tending to evil) halfling thief-type character. It was fun looking the other way and willingly being deceived/constantly misinterpreting the halfling actions, but it was MY choice to play it that way. If a paladin player is willing to play this way, it can be fun. But it needs to be a choice and not be forced on the player or it won't be fun.

Another time I was playing (online with strangers) a NG cleric of Pelor and I discover that 1 character is a N acane caster that is summoning evil creatures and another is a evil mercenary who wants to murder captives. I tried to deal with it In-character and asked them nicely to desist. They both reacted and basically said "@&&%$ you", so I stopped healing them. It caused much tension and the game became NOT FUN. I had NO CHOICE in this. The Dm allowed these characters to exist in the same party and just let the problems fester.

* By "everyones agreement" I mean, all the other players agree to make characters that won't have their play/fun "spoiled" by a paladin. Or if they want to "oppose" the paladin, they agree to have a friendly rivalary instead of a "I must kill the paladin to play my character".

 

[Marius Delphus]

Lawful Good characters live, laugh, love, and make merry just like everybody else. They sorrow, they rage, they give up, they persevere, and they appreciate a good joke, even if it's played on them.

Or they don't. The point is alignment doesn't have much to do with personality. Alignment describes the goals your character aims at, but says nothing about how he gets there. Many of Jackie Chan's characters are Lawful Good. Many comic-book superheroes are Lawful Good.

Paladin codes typically constrain behavior, but not personality. Thus, while you might encounter a code that prohibits, say, imbibing alcohol, that doesn't mean you can't party. Your code may tell you that you need to punish evil, but you don't have to do it *right now,* or when you're outnumbered, outclassed, or both -- getting yourself imprisoned or dead keeps you from doing good in the world, and you're supposed to do good in the world.

So yes, your paladin can be a fun-loving person who genuinely grieves at the harm Evil forces him to inflict, or she can be a sourpuss who only finds solace in defeating the bad guys, or anything in between. Flexible and fun.

 

[TwoSix]

LG can be fun, since there are no mechanical repercussions for not meeting the standard of the alignment.

Paladins, on the other hand, are totally dependent on the DM. I've seen perfectly good DMs get stodgy where paladin morality is concerned. Every DM has their own opinion on where paladins should lie on the continuum of purity of intent and purity of action.