Can a monk with natural weapons use them in a flurry?

[Rkhet]

what the title said.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No, he may not.

When using Flurry of Blows, a monk is limited to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. Natural weapons are neither, and therefore may not be used in conjunction with Flurry of Blows.

 

[ARandomGod]

No, he may not.

When using Flurry of Blows, a monk is limited to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. Natural weapons are neither, and therefore may not be used in conjunction with Flurry of Blows.

Yup, can't do it.

I've seen some people debate as to whether natural weapons may be tacked on the end AFTER a flurry however (as secondary weapons). I remember both positions being argued, I don't remember if anyone had any rules backing, but the answer seems like it will be the same as if you can do it in conjunction with two weapon fighting...

 

[mostholy2]

I know this probably belongs in the House Rule section, but after looking at some of the expansion books with feats allowing for using flurry with specific weapons, I was thinking wouldn't it just be easier to just have a generalized feat that allows flurrying with any specific weapon as a feat (in this case natural weapons).

To this end I was wondering what people thought of this new feat to accomplish that (based on the doublesteel strike, serpent strike, etc. feats):

Flurry fighting-style

Pre-req: Flurry of blows, Proficiency (specific weapon), Weapon focus (specific weapon)

Description: A character with this feat has training in a specific weapon school of fighting. The character can use one specific weapon that he has both proficiency with and weapon focus in and use it in a flurry of blows. This feat can be taken multiple times, each time adding an additional specific weapon, but the character must meet the proficiency and weapon focus pre-requirements for the additional weapon.

Is there a situation where this feat could be abused to the point of brokeness? TWF Monk with improved trip and 2 whips come to mind. Feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, you can use natural weapons in conjunction with a flurry of blows, but you have to use them as secondary attacks (-5 plus -2 from flurry), while the monk's unarmed attacks will be primary (-2 from flurry).

Your race has to be able to use manufactured weapons and natural weapons in the same full attack action, to do so.

Check the 3.5 Main FAQ, there's an example with a centaur monk in there who does ecactly that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Actually, you can use natural weapons in conjunction with a flurry of blows,

No, you can't, and the FAQ is wrong.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired.

Any FAQ rulings which contradict the above are house rules. And, given the number of complaints I've seen on this board from people who find natural-attack-armed monks overpowered, they aren't well-thought out, at that.

 

[Thanee]

The FAQ seperates the use of natural weapons in a flurry and together with a flurry. The first is what the PHB rule means ("when using flurry of blows ..."). There is no contradiction, as the natural weapons are not used when the flurry is used, but are instead secondary attacks. This is quite clearly along the lines of the MM rules about manufactured and natural weapons as well.

And while I also do not agree with everything written in the FAQ, it is official and that is the current, official answer to the question. Whether you or me or anyone else likes it or not.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The FAQ seperates the use of natural weapons in a flurry and together with a flurry.

A distinction which appears nowhere else in the rules. In other words, they made it up.

And while I also do not agree with everything written in the FAQ, it is official

It is not, however, core. And where it contradicts the PHB, DMG, or MM, it is wrong.

 

[Diirk]

I maintain that when you choose to attack with a flurry of blows, you are infact, considered as 'flurrying' until your next turn. This includes attacks of opportunity, which is why you still get the -2 (if you're low enough level) on any AoOs you make.