Can a wand be used more than once per round?

[Hypersmurf]

A wand takes a standard action to fire, that's "exactly how long it takes" to use it, and now that 3.0 Haste is gone nobody gets 2 standard actions in a single round.

Fear the Choker with UMD!

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most folks agree (when time-representation is discussed) that a standard action is more than half the round.

Bob has a Wand of Magic Missile. I have a Wand of Magic Missile and a Wand of Scorching Ray.

Bob takes a standard action to activate his Wand of Magic Missile, targeting the enemy wizard.

I observe the effect of the missile, then decide whether I wish to use my Wand of Magic Missile, or (if the wizard has a Shield spell active) my Wand of Scorching Ray. Then I take a standard action to activate the wand I choose.

My standard action began after Bob's standard action completed. Simultaneity is not possible. Do both standard actions resolve within the same round?

If so, how can both standard actions take up more than half a round each?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

This is a fine House Rule, and simpler than the one I proposed. If I ever have to deal with this cheese, I'd be tempted to use yours instead.

However, technically the two actions could not be simultaneous, per the RAW. A standard action takes longer than a move action. So what you're suggesting would look something like this.

Use wand......pass wand
------------>-------->
-------->------------>
get wand......use wand

Note where the "use wand" parts overlap in the center. That'd be where the two wizards were using the same wand at the same time.

Still, for simplicity's sake, and to allow a bit of flexibility, I still like your House Rule.

Really? Where does it say in the RAW that a standard action takes longer than a move?

Standard Action
A standard action allows you to do something, most commonly make an attack or cast a spell. See Table: Standard Actions for other standard actions.

Move Action
A move action allows you to move your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Move Actions.

You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.

Seems like the same amount of time.

Am I missing something? Or are you assuming that not being able to do two standard actions in a round implies that each one takes up more than 1/2 the available time? If so, that's an assumption you are making that is NOT in the rules.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Am I missing something? Or are you assuming that not being able to do two standard actions in a round implies that each one takes up more than 1/2 the available time? If so, that's an assumption you are making that is NOT in the rules.

It is an assumption, true, and therefore obviously not in the rules. It is, however, the most logical reasoning on it, do you not agree? Or, was the idea that you get only one standard action and one move action or two move actions completely arbitrary? Is there a non-balance issue why I can cast only 1 standard action spell per round but move double my speed in one round?

My standard action began after Bob's standard action completed. Simultaneity is not possible. Do both standard actions resolve within the same round?

If so, how can both standard actions take up more than half a round each?

That's begging the question (at least I think that's the proper term). Anyway, your comment is flawed because you're arguing to advocate a paradox.

 

[Artoomis]

It is an assumption, true, and therefore obviously not in the rules. It is, however, the most logical reasoning on it, do you not agree? Or, was the idea that you get only one standard action and one move action or two move actions completely arbitrary? Is there a non-balance issue why I can cast only 1 standard action spell per round but move double my speed in one round?...

It could certainly be purely balance. Or it could be that using a standard action takes up too much effort to be done twice in a round - it simply is not normally possible. Or any of a dozen different explanations that have nothing to do with it taking more time than a move. No need to add in a new assumption into the rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's begging the question (at least I think that's the proper term). Anyway, your comment is flawed because you're arguing to advocate a paradox.

Hmm? I just want to know if that situation falls within a single round under the combat rules.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's not that big of an assumption though. It's certainly quite prevalent in the terminology used. Consider this with my emphasis, "A move action allows you to move your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time." If a standard action were in fact equal in time to a move action, then you should be able to take a standard action in place of a move action, but you can't. This implies strongly that the time necessary for a standard action is greater than the time necessary for a move action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Hmm? I just want to know if that situation falls within a single round under the combat rules.

-Hyp.

The answer as you know it is obviously yes, but the question is attempting to get to a point where there's a paradox (and I'm curious if that's called begging the question, but I'm not positive).

In other words, it's trivial to show that two people take full round actions, consecutively, but in the same round. That's clearly a paradox. Asking someone to agree to the "fact" that 12 seconds = 6 seconds is unreasonable. So, your example in trying to prove that a standard action is not more than half a round is not a good one. Am I making sense? I hope I am.

 

[Artoomis]

It's not that big of an assumption though. It's certainly quite prevalent in the terminology used. Consider this with my emphasis, "A move action allows you to move your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time." If a standard action were in fact equal in time to a move action, then you should be able to take a standard action in place of a move action, but you can't. This implies strongly that the time necessary for a standard action is greater than the time necessary for a move action.

Well, I am not saying it is an unreasonable assumption, just an unnecessary one, and therefore should not be made.

As for the above, since a standard action may ONLY be taken once a round, it's clear you cannot substitute one for a second move action regardless of the amount of time it takes.

If a standard action took longer than a move action, then I should be able to take a move -move PLUS something else to make up for the time lost in not taking a standard action. But you can't do that.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

(and I'm curious if that's called begging the question, but I'm not positive).

It's not. "Begging the question" is, generally, when you use a carefully disguised version of your original statement in order to prove your original statement. In other words, the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises. It's very similar to circular reasoning.