D&D 5E Can a wood elf hide in dim light?

[Psikerlord#]

My ruling is no, makes the ability far too strong. Also I believe there is a tweet from one of the devs suggesting their ruling would be no.

 

[ShadowSeeker]

Found this Sage Advice by Jeremy Crawford, but I'm not quite sure what to make of it:
Q: Mask of the Wild differs from Skulker. Restricts to natural light obscurity. Trouble adjudicating. Can you advise?
A:Mask of the Wild lets a wood elf try to hide when lightly obscured by anything in nature: the dim light of dusk, fog, etc. -J

So a Wood Elf can hide in dim light of dusk, but not in dim light of a torch?

 

[fjw70]

Found this Sage Advice by Jeremy Crawford, but I'm not quite sure what to make of it:
Q: Mask of the Wild differs from Skulker. Restricts to natural light obscurity. Trouble adjudicating. Can you advise?
A:Mask of the Wild lets a wood elf try to hide when lightly obscured by anything in nature: the dim light of dusk, fog, etc. -J

So a Wood Elf can hide in dim light of dusk, but not in dim light of a torch?

That is what it looks like he is saying.

 

[DEFCON 1]

So a Wood Elf can hide in dim light of dusk, but not in dim light of a torch?

If I had to interpret what Jeremy is trying to intend by his comments, it moves out of a strictly black and white "here are Game rules", and instead into getting across a feeling in the game world.

When Wood Elves are outside in nature, the entirety of the natural world is there for them to mask themselves in and which is their bread and butter. So if there's a bush, the elf can hide behind it because they know what parts are the best to sit behind, their clothing matches, they contort their body in such a way that it melds into the forms of the bush, and so on. By the same token, if they're outside in Dim Light they know how to for instance lie flat on the ground and look like they are part of the natural terrain... or put their bodies into a position to make it look like they are a small tree, a rock, or some other natural object. So the Hidden status is acquired partially from a Game Rule, and partially from the "story" of wood elves in the natural the world.

Whereas underground, it's implied they just do not know underground terrain nearly intuitively enough to hide in the "open" of just Dim Light by position, form, or replication alone. Thus, Dim Light underground from a torch doesn't let them try and Hide.

Now... does this half-Game Rule / half-Story justification to Mask of the Wild open up additional corner cases for people to argue over or try to justify? Absolutely. Someone will probably at some point try and ask why an elf could lie on the ground outside and attempt to Hide in Dim Light, but couldn't lie in a fungal patch in a cave and try to Hide in Dim Light (since the Story aspects seem close to being comperable. At that point... should you decide to follow Jeremy's rule, you'll need to fully embrace the Story Justification of the decision and just say "Can't do in underground, because Elf Reasons".

That might annoy some players, whereas others might accept it no problem. But it's the kind of Story Intention type of ruling that might be fully embraced or an anathema to a particular playstyle. It's up to you to figure out what your and your group's preference lie.

 

[fjw70]

That's the key, whatever you and your group is comfortable with. You could even be more restrictive if you want and say the terrain has to be familiar to the elf for it to work.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

While it is not specifically called out in the light/obscurement stuff, it should be obvious that creatures with Darkvision would not suffer this penalty...as they see in dim light as if it were bright and, thus, dim light [alone] does not create a "lightly obscured area" to them.

I've seen this misconception twice in this thread, so just for the record:

Per PHB 183-5, Darkvision makes you see in darkness as if it were dim light. It does not make dim light like bright light. Ergo, it is really easy to hide from people relying on darkvision alone, especially if you're a wood elf.

 

[steeldragons]

According to every description of Darkvision for every race in the PHB, not to mention its definition in the MM, it is both. In Dim light you see as in normal "bright light" and in Darkness you see as in Dim Light.

Why you think it is one and not the other is...confusing to me.

EDIT after checking the pages you called up: Your citation (pp. 183-184) is regarding rules for Vision and Light. Specifically, the "obscured" conditions. Namely, it is saying the if you have darkvision and are in Darkness (a "heavily obscured" area), you are only considered to be in a "lightly obscured" area.

I can only suppose they didn't feel the need to spell/point out that, since something with Darkvision sees in Dim light (a "lightly obscured" area) as in normal/"bright light", a creature with Darkvision in a Dim Light area would, obviously, not consider the area "obscured" at all.

EDIT 2 to add: I suggest you amend your own misconception and record for future game play.

 

[redrick]

Found this Sage Advice by Jeremy Crawford, but I'm not quite sure what to make of it:
Q: Mask of the Wild differs from Skulker. Restricts to natural light obscurity. Trouble adjudicating. Can you advise?
A:Mask of the Wild lets a wood elf try to hide when lightly obscured by anything in nature: the dim light of dusk, fog, etc. -J

So a Wood Elf can hide in dim light of dusk, but not in dim light of a torch?

Short answer:

No, dim light on its own is not a "natural phenomenon" with regards to Mask of the Wild. If that is your only justification for hiding, it doesn't work and you cannot hide.

Long answer:

If the dim light is being caused by some other "nature-y phenomenon" (such as that very specific quality of dim light that you get right at the beginning of dawn), your wood elf can probably hide. It's not the dim light that is obscuring your elf, it is early dawn. (Maybe a 15 minute window between the full darkness of night, in which anyone can hide, and the reasonable visibility of early morning, in which nobody can hide.) On the other hand, in my opinion, and other opinions may vary, moon-light does not qualify as a nature-y form of partial obscurity, because it is the moon that is providing the dim light, rather than the moon which is partially obscuring the light.

Which maybe is a better way of thinking about it. Dim light isn't obscuring. It's illuminating, just dimly. So it doesn't work for Mask of the Wild, which looks for natural obscurement. If some natural phenomenon is partially obscuring bright light (such as dawn or dusk), then you have a natural phenomenon which allows you to hide. But if that's too complicated, you can always go back to the short answer.

 

[Psikerlord#]

The more I think about the Halfling lightfoot and wood elf hiding abilities, the more I think it better to just give them both adv on hide checks, and be done with it. Different rules for hiding between different PC races is just blerrghh.

PLease, dear wotc gods, give us some optional - simple - rules in UA about hiding and stealth. Amen.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

EDIT 2 to add: I suggest you amend your own misconception and record for future game play.

Consider it done. I had no idea the PHB 183 rules were different from the race-specific entries. Color me as surprised as the time I found out that the Warlock's Create Thrall feature doesn't actually allow you to command your thrall due to the new definition of "charmed"...

Thanks.