Can an Illusion of Cats Damage a Rat Swarm?

[lukelightning]

It's not that hard.
Daniel

But then your illusionist would get ambushed by Disney's Lawyer-Ninjas.

 

[0-hr]

The reason it worked, some weasels are white, and weasels are natural predators of rats. So despite the fact that it didn't smell like a weasel or really looked like one, the other rats believed it was one. .

Can't you change the color of an object with Prestidigittation? Man, I can't beleive we've been using oil and damage spells against swarms all these years when all it takes is a cantrip!

 

[Pielorinho]

A rat is not an object.

(And yeah--you gotta watch for those Disney ninjas. They're so sneaky, I can't even find a picture of them on Google images!)

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

(And yeah--you gotta watch for those Disney ninjas. They're so sneaky, I can't even find a picture of them on Google images!)

-Hyp.

 

[roguerouge]

So he is "herding" cats with his illusion?

Yeah like that can happen.

I would agree with the delay but not dispersal. delay gives an award for creativity but not something that is overpowering. A dispersal would essentially be allowing him to defeat teh swarm all by himself with a non-damaging spell.

I like the joke but disagree with the last sentiment. Illusionists are defined by their abilities to creatively use non-damaging spells as instant "kill" spells. As soon as you start ruling that you can't end an encounter with non-damaging spells, you might as well have the illusionist PC roll up another character.

Guys: this is a big moment for a young illusionist, mightily stepping forward to improbably save the day. Don't nerf it for him. Let him have his one moment in the sun.

 

[Pielorinho]

-Hyp.

You realize that now that you've found them, they have to kill you and everyone who's seen this picture, right?

Daniel

 

[lukelightning]

For me, it's a matter of it being a second level spell that specifically lacks the ability to duplicate either damage or other effects, and lacks an entire sense component that the target (swarm of rats) certainly relies on.

I can accept distraction with the use of the spell, but if angry weapon-weilding humans can't frighten off a swarm of rats, neither can a bunch of immaterial scentless cats.

 

[evilbob]

The Illusionist's solution? To cast a Minor Image of a swarm of yowling cats chasing after the rats.

So what do you think? If the swarm fails the spell DC, what happens?

I'd say it fails due to the fact that the rat swarm does not have a hive mind and therefore is not affected by (or maybe a better way to put it would be "not cognizant of") simple illusion spells. If it were a major illusion, it seems like an argument could be made, but otherwise the rats are just going to ignore it.

If that seems harsh, I'd just rule that the caster gets a +2 bonus to his spell's DC for creativity and if the swarm fails its save it won't move into that area. However, as soon as the illusionary cats move into the swarm's area, it gets another save (for "interaction").

 

[Tiberius]

I am very lucky (and cursed) to have players who think outside of the box when it comes to spells.

The situation: a rat swarm is barreling down on the PC's.

The Illusionist's solution? To cast a Minor Image of a swarm of yowling cats chasing after the rats.

So what do you think? If the swarm fails the spell DC, what happens? Total dispersal of the rat swarm? Do they take damage? I have to say I'm impressed by the cleverness and wouldn't mind rewarding the guy...

I'd have the swarm attack the cats. Swarms move toward the closest living target and engulf it. They continue to do this as long as there are targets to be had. If the swarm fails its Will save, then it thinks the cats are real. Thus, it will engulf it and continue to attack until the illusion vanishes or the swarm makes its save for interacting with the image. Then it will move on to its next target(s).

 

[phindar]

Well, the illusions we're talking about are figments, so as soon as the swarm touches them it'll know they're not real. But for me, the benefit comes from the caster making an illusion of a predator to scare the rat swarm, rather than just putting another valid target on the field.