Can an Illusion of Cats Damage a Rat Swarm?

[lukelightning]

For what it's worth, from the SRD:

A rat swarm seeks to surround and attack any warm-blooded prey it encounters. A swarm deals 1d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.

Rat swarms seem crazily aggressive. I'd say luring them is a lot better than trying to scare them.

 

[Arkham]

Rats in rl will attack cats anyway, I don't see how an illusion of them will deter them any...

 

[lukelightning]

Rats in rl will attack cats anyway, I don't see how an illusion of them will deter them any...

Now I have the theme to Itchy and Scratchy in my head.

Fight fight fight...

 

[notjer]

I would flee if I saw a hoard of cats running towards me if they look angry enough

What about a scarecrow? Somehow It works on birds.

I would believe the swarm of rats would flee, the rats probably know how dangerous a cat is I would allow it, as long the swarm of rats arent magical.

 

[starwed]

I don't think people quite realize the relative importance of sight/smell for rats. Obviously it isn't necessary to keep this level of realism in a D&D game, but if you're curious, take a look at this page on rat senses. (Imagine being confronted with an illusion consisting only of smell and sound, and that's how a rat would probably think of an optical/sound illusion. A moment of confusion, but not something to worry about in the midst of combat.)

 

[hong]

A rat is not an object.

A rat is a FREE MAN!!!

No, wait.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Guys: this is a big moment for a young illusionist, mightily stepping forward to improbably save the day. Don't nerf it for him. Let him have his one moment in the sun.

We differ on a more fundamental level. We are not nerfing his spell. The spell already has limitations not given by us. Instead, what we are not doing is not reverse-nerfing* the spell by making it do something it simply isn't capable of doing.

* What's the word I'm looking for here?

 

[phindar]

Reverse-nerfing is only legal in Arkansas.

To me, tailoring an image to have a specific effect on a target is exactly what illusions are designed for. Making an illusion of something an animal is naturally frightened of is a much more creative use of the spell than creating an image the animal doesn't really care about, and so should have some sort of benefit.

 

[KarinsDad]

To me, tailoring an image to have a specific effect on a target is exactly what illusions are designed for. Making an illusion of something an animal is naturally frightened of is a much more creative use of the spell than creating an image the animal doesn't really care about, and so should have some sort of benefit.

I've always found "attacking Swarms" to be a bit silly in the first place.

Unless driven by hunger or a desire to protect territory or some such, many swarms should disperse away from anything they are afraid of, including adventurers.

So, I would rule that if it is a natural Swarm of Rats, then it should flee a Swarm of Cats (which, btw, I think allowing an illusion of a swarm as a single creature is stretching the intent of the image spells) unless the Rat Swarm is extremly motivated to attack (e.g. backed into a corner or some such).

But, if it were a summoned Rat Swarm from a Druid (compelled to attack), then it should not flee a Swarm of Cats and the illusion should merely created a temporary target in front of the Rat Swarm which even movement throught the image would disperse.

 

[Trench]

So, I would rule that if it is a natural Swarm of Rats, then it should flee a Swarm of Cats (which, btw, I think allowing an illusion of a swarm as a single creature is stretching the intent of the image spells) unless the Rat Swarm is extremly motivated to attack (e.g. backed into a corner or some such).

But, if it were a summoned Rat Swarm from a Druid (compelled to attack), then it should not flee a Swarm of Cats and the illusion should merely created a temporary target in front of the Rat Swarm which even movement throught the image would disperse.

I agree with this, and it's what I went with IMC. Given that the rat swarm was "asked" by a rather evil race of ratmen to attack, they ran as soon as the cats came. They still got some hits in once the fear wore of, so it was more "buying time" rather than defeating them outright.

Plus, I agree with those who said to reward the clever idea, and the fact that this is exactly what illusionists are supposed to do certainly helped that decision.