Can bows be Keen?

[Kai Lord]

Or do they not qualify as piercing weapons? Does a Keen bow just bestow the ability on its arrows?

 

[FrankTrollman]

Technically, a bow is a piercing weapon. Arrows are ammunition which can be used as an improvised piercing weapon.

So bows are definately able to be Keen. You could make a compelling rules argument that Arrows can't be made Keen - although I would personally allow you to do so.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

Technically, a bow is a piercing weapon. Arrows are ammunition which can be used as an improvised piercing weapon.

So bows are definately able to be Keen. You could make a compelling rules argument that Arrows can't be made Keen - although I would personally allow you to do so.

I'd allow someone to make an arrow Keen... as a melee weapon, not as ammunition. (Pay for 1, not for 50, in other words.)

I wouldn't allow a Keen Bow; Keen only appears as a melee weapon special ability, not a ranged weapon special ability.

Keen Edge, however, works on a bow just fine.

As worded, while you can cast Keen Edge on arrows, it shouldn't actually do anything. Arrows don't have a threat range or a critical multiplier; bows do. The default assumption seems to be that Keen Edge on an arrow acts as if it has been cast on the bow, however.

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I wouldn't allow a Keen Bow; Keen only appears as a melee weapon special ability, not a ranged weapon special ability.

Huh?

Yeah, and Opposable doesn't appear in the treasure chart at all - that doesn't mean you can't make an Opposable weapon. Please, those are the randomly determined treasure tables - they have about as much to do with what you could make as the standard NPC equipment lists.

Some abilities say "This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon" - like throwing. Others do not - like Keen. If it says that it is melee only - it's melee only. Otherwise, it's not. You're supposed to be a rules guru - you are supposed to get questions like that right. It's not complicated or anything.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah, and Opposable doesn't appear in the treasure chart at all - that doesn't mean you can't make an Opposable weapon.[/b]

It appears in Masters of the Wild, which is, oddly enough, where the ability appears...?

Some abilities say "This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon" - like throwing. Others do not - like Keen. If it says that it is melee only - it's melee only.

A Mighty Cleaving dart?

A Defending crossbow?

Wounding shuriken?

50 +1 arrows of Spell Storing that can all be charged with Inflict Serious Wounds or Poison for under 8500gp?

Doesn't work for me. They're on the melee table; they're not on the ranged table; and that's just where they belong.

You're supposed to be a rules guru...

Ever seen me claim that?

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

A Mighty Cleaving dart?

It's legal - even useful sometimes. While it's a waste - but so is 3.5 Vorpal.

A Defending crossbow?

Not only is that legal - it's practically a requirement in 3.5 where magic bolts don't stack with magic crossbows. What else are you going to do with the enhancement bonus?

Wounding shuriken?

Not only is that legal, these actually appear in at least one published adventure.

-Frank

 

[Kai Lord]

A Mighty Cleaving dart?

You know, a Cleaving bow would be badass. Shades of Odysseus and Legolas.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's legal - even useful sometimes.

What, if you're holding the Mighty Cleaving dart in one hand and smacking someone with a battleaxe in the other?

I still dispute the legality, though. If for no other reason than the Spell Storing arrows.

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Spell Storing Arrows are legit as well - even listed in some FRCS stuff.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spell Storing Arrows are legit as well - even listed in some FRCS stuff.

Ain't no way that's balanced.

Given that Spell Storing ammunition is much more dangerous than a Spell Storing melee weapon, if they were legal, one would expect there to be a lot of them made, and thus they'd have an entry on the ranged weapon special abilities table...

I just can't agree. Not on the table, not legal.

-Hyp.