Can High Level Parties really die?
- Thread starter JacktheRabbit
- Start date
If you are using the core rules and style in your campaign, I would have to agree that a high level party with decently powerful allies/sponsors would be difficult to permanently destroy. By the same token though, the party’s high-level enemies are just as difficult to permanently kill. I am sure many DMs can attest to clever ways around resurrection type spells devised by players. Though I will admit that True Resurrection is difficult to get around, there are likely many ways.
Since I have yet to run or play a high level game in 3rd Edition I will not comment on mechanical possibilities.
- Josh
Since I have yet to run or play a high level game in 3rd Edition I will not comment on mechanical possibilities.
- Josh
LGodamus
First Post
In my campaign there a few really good reasons for all people to fear death not just low level folks, first of all you can only be brought back twice, no matter the means raise dead ,res, true res.....next all forms of raise dead require the recipient to accept a quest set down from on high....thirdly all spells that return folks to life cost xp except reincarnate which i use a much less kind much more random list...lastly the dead guy must pass a level chck vs. an increasingly harder DC modified by different circumstances including their religious beliefs.
Psion
Adventurer
A few things...
You assume NPCs.
In my campaign, there are characters of that level, but they are extremely rare, and often cannot be bothered with. If you want to assume in your campaign that such resource are readily available for the taking, that's your call, but you are pretty much making your own bed. You want characters to not always have access to high level NPCs that can cast true ressurection, then don't give it to them in the first place.
That said, I am likewise leery of "and stay dead effects", but I think that a campaign with ressurection in it would naturally develop such items. I think the key to keep it from being a "player screwer" is to let the players know ahead of time that they are facing something with that property, or to create ways around it.
For example
- In my campaign, soulblades (essentially, Morganti blades from Brust) can eat or destroy souls. Catch is: you can't hide these things. The mere presence of one will give you a bone-chilling queasiness.
- In the Relics & Rituals, there is a spell called Shatter Soul. Restoring someone affected by this spell requires several high level spells and an adventure in itself recovering fragments of a characters soul that have been scattered about to usnsuspecting carriers.
You assume NPCs.
In my campaign, there are characters of that level, but they are extremely rare, and often cannot be bothered with. If you want to assume in your campaign that such resource are readily available for the taking, that's your call, but you are pretty much making your own bed. You want characters to not always have access to high level NPCs that can cast true ressurection, then don't give it to them in the first place.
That said, I am likewise leery of "and stay dead effects", but I think that a campaign with ressurection in it would naturally develop such items. I think the key to keep it from being a "player screwer" is to let the players know ahead of time that they are facing something with that property, or to create ways around it.
For example
- In my campaign, soulblades (essentially, Morganti blades from Brust) can eat or destroy souls. Catch is: you can't hide these things. The mere presence of one will give you a bone-chilling queasiness.
- In the Relics & Rituals, there is a spell called Shatter Soul. Restoring someone affected by this spell requires several high level spells and an adventure in itself recovering fragments of a characters soul that have been scattered about to usnsuspecting carriers.
Dagger75
Epic Commoner
My party just completed the epic quest I made and are on there way to be epic characters.
I almost killed them.
High Level Groups will die because they underestimate the power that can be thrown at them.
1 Winterwight from Epic Level Handbook Killed the fighter in 2 rounds. Only 1 round was with the full atack. He was level 19 at the time. The druid and the cleric used EVERY spell they had. They even healed it so it had 3 hitpoints left. I was back up 50 hitpoints after killing the fighter. The spell casters only had lower level spells left. It came down to if they could beat the SR of the winterwight.
Next the Mithral Golem from the same book are just plain nasty. 1 of them almost beat 3 of them. They were standing toe to toe with that sucker for 5 rounds. It was great.
Also the best way to kill High level parties, is to have your bad guys mimc what yor group to stay alive. My clerics are now casting contigincy heal on themselves. A little trick I learned from my group.
I almost killed them.
High Level Groups will die because they underestimate the power that can be thrown at them.
1 Winterwight from Epic Level Handbook Killed the fighter in 2 rounds. Only 1 round was with the full atack. He was level 19 at the time. The druid and the cleric used EVERY spell they had. They even healed it so it had 3 hitpoints left. I was back up 50 hitpoints after killing the fighter. The spell casters only had lower level spells left. It came down to if they could beat the SR of the winterwight.
Next the Mithral Golem from the same book are just plain nasty. 1 of them almost beat 3 of them. They were standing toe to toe with that sucker for 5 rounds. It was great.
Also the best way to kill High level parties, is to have your bad guys mimc what yor group to stay alive. My clerics are now casting contigincy heal on themselves. A little trick I learned from my group.
Arnwyn
First Post
Generally (in my experience so far), if the group has a semi-competent cleric, it is nearly impossible to permanently kill a high level party as long as that cleric still stands. (As soon as that cleric goes down, all bets are off.) This assumes a "standard" game, and no DM dirty tricks. [As I noted above, this is only a general statement, and precludes boss battles and a couple of rare soul-stealing items, of course.]
NPCs are another matter, and entirely under the control of the DM. Period. For example, in my campaign, raising/resurrecting people is a punishment, not a boon. Nobody wants to come back from the Realm of their deity (unless they had *very* important unfinished business to attend to - and that does not include "adventuring"). Any NPC cleric will likely laugh at the PCs if they ask for a resurrection - what daft person would want to come back?
So, don't assume NPCs - that would be wrong.
NPCs are another matter, and entirely under the control of the DM. Period. For example, in my campaign, raising/resurrecting people is a punishment, not a boon. Nobody wants to come back from the Realm of their deity (unless they had *very* important unfinished business to attend to - and that does not include "adventuring"). Any NPC cleric will likely laugh at the PCs if they ask for a resurrection - what daft person would want to come back?
So, don't assume NPCs - that would be wrong.
MerakSpielman
First Post
send the PCs to a plane with a different timeflow (say, one second here equals 100 years there). Unless the trapped character can get off themselves, they will die of old age before anybody can free them.
Death from old age cannot be undone!
Also, if I were a high level NPC and I saw the good party I considered to be the best hope of the world die fighting the rising evil, I would not rush to resurrect them. They already failed once, why risk the ire of such powerful evil personally? Perhaps the legions of undead would be willing to make a deal...
Death from old age cannot be undone!
Also, if I were a high level NPC and I saw the good party I considered to be the best hope of the world die fighting the rising evil, I would not rush to resurrect them. They already failed once, why risk the ire of such powerful evil personally? Perhaps the legions of undead would be willing to make a deal...
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