Can I have your balance opinions on DotF's Sacred Fist?
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Blood Jester
First Post
My first impression (that I have not be able to playtest yet) was (and is) that it out-monks the Monk.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Whoa!
Didn't look at the PrC to closely before.
Yea, it's pretty powerful. Still, the monk has stuff that makes him worthwhile, as he's got the better attack progression (with better iterative attacks) and better defensive qualities (improved evasion, three good saves, all the resistances and immunities, fast movement and other movement abilities, AC bonuses). But, come to think about it, it's a great PrC for a Monk to take at epic levels.
Didn't look at the PrC to closely before.
Yea, it's pretty powerful. Still, the monk has stuff that makes him worthwhile, as he's got the better attack progression (with better iterative attacks) and better defensive qualities (improved evasion, three good saves, all the resistances and immunities, fast movement and other movement abilities, AC bonuses). But, come to think about it, it's a great PrC for a Monk to take at epic levels.
Hmm. There are several things in this class that sets off the 'ole unbalace-dar.
First is the relatively low level this otherwise super powerful class can be attained. A 4th level Human Paladin could technically fulfill all of the requirements, allowing entry into the class at 5th.
At 10th level a Monk gains the ability to penetrate DR +1 (Ki Strike +1) a Sacred Fist gets the same ability at 1st (which would be 5th total for Joe Paladin) and this ability increases very rapidly.
In addition, the 8th level ability (No Shadow Blows) basicly makes the Sacred Fist's fists magical weapons of the characters Wis modifier (!!! it is very easy to max the hell out of your Wis and get the equivalent of an Epic Weapon bonus with this ability) and that plus stacks with Puissant Blows (their version of Ki Strike, note that a Sacred Fist will never ever have to deal with DR. With a not at all unreasonable 18 Wis, this character will be going through +8 DR like butter.)
And of course then we have Sacred Flame. This basicly gives their fists the Flaming magical weapon ability, altered to do half sacred damage. In addition, this ability does the Sacred Fist level + Wis bonus in damage. Note that when this ability is active you are double dipping your Wis bonus, gaining it twice to your damage.
Its not all good though. Monks obviously get more attacks with their better attack progression. They get faster movement. Improved Evasion. All of those nifty Monkly things. Better saves. The Sacred Fist gets some spells, but they didn't seem too good.
Monks and Sacred Fists have close to equal damage, except that the majority of the Sacred Fist's damage is from static numbers while a Monk's is variable.
eg. A Monk might do 1d20 + 10 while a Sacred Fist would do 1d10 + 20. Average the same, but in game is a bit different.
Overall the Sacred Fist is kind of like a Monk on steroids. Doesn't have a lot of the mobility powers of the Monk but if he connects, you WILL go down.
I would really want to see him in action before making any big judgements like banning it or something, though.
Hope I helped!
First is the relatively low level this otherwise super powerful class can be attained. A 4th level Human Paladin could technically fulfill all of the requirements, allowing entry into the class at 5th.
At 10th level a Monk gains the ability to penetrate DR +1 (Ki Strike +1) a Sacred Fist gets the same ability at 1st (which would be 5th total for Joe Paladin) and this ability increases very rapidly.
In addition, the 8th level ability (No Shadow Blows) basicly makes the Sacred Fist's fists magical weapons of the characters Wis modifier (!!! it is very easy to max the hell out of your Wis and get the equivalent of an Epic Weapon bonus with this ability) and that plus stacks with Puissant Blows (their version of Ki Strike, note that a Sacred Fist will never ever have to deal with DR. With a not at all unreasonable 18 Wis, this character will be going through +8 DR like butter.)
And of course then we have Sacred Flame. This basicly gives their fists the Flaming magical weapon ability, altered to do half sacred damage. In addition, this ability does the Sacred Fist level + Wis bonus in damage. Note that when this ability is active you are double dipping your Wis bonus, gaining it twice to your damage.
Its not all good though. Monks obviously get more attacks with their better attack progression. They get faster movement. Improved Evasion. All of those nifty Monkly things. Better saves. The Sacred Fist gets some spells, but they didn't seem too good.
Monks and Sacred Fists have close to equal damage, except that the majority of the Sacred Fist's damage is from static numbers while a Monk's is variable.
eg. A Monk might do 1d20 + 10 while a Sacred Fist would do 1d10 + 20. Average the same, but in game is a bit different.
Overall the Sacred Fist is kind of like a Monk on steroids. Doesn't have a lot of the mobility powers of the Monk but if he connects, you WILL go down.
I would really want to see him in action before making any big judgements like banning it or something, though.
Hope I helped!
Zhure
First Post
Not only can they not use weapons, they can't carry them at all without having to atone to get their Sacred Fisthood reinstated.
They tend to be offensively more powerful than a monk, but defensively weaker and they come in relatively balanced, IME, if a tad bit over-powered.
Greg
They tend to be offensively more powerful than a monk, but defensively weaker and they come in relatively balanced, IME, if a tad bit over-powered.
Greg
