Can I Ignore An Opponent?

[WhimsyTheFae]

Soooooo...why would you "ignore" an opponent, anyway?

Reading this thread, I don't see why you would.

Brad

Zog, the black knight (Ftr8, magical plate armor, AC 23 - flat footed 21, 90 hp) is flanked by two opponents. After three rounds, one of the opponents has delivered four hits (two misses) for 38 points of damage (sneak attack style). The other opponent has only hit once (five misses) for 5 points of damage. Zog decides to ignore the second opponent and focus on the rogue-type. Three rounds later, Zog drops the rogue-type opponent (taking only 11 more points of damage from him - much less without the sneak attack). During that time, the other opponent attacks nine times and hits four times for 21 points of damage. Now, with 15 hit points remaining, Zog turns on the weaker opponent (perhaps even fighting defensively). If the previous rounds are any indication, he will probably take another 5 to 10 points of damage before dropping his opponent.

If Zog had not done this, by the time he dropped the rogue, he may have taken close to 90 points of damage (around 85 or so) and would probably not have been able to take the other opponent down.

Obviously, this tactic would be used very very rarely, but there is a use.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

So that if you are flanked by a rogue & a summoned monster you can ignore the summoned monster & thus halve the rogues power just like that.

Nicely put (and a lot less wordy than I was)...

 

[Storyteller01]

So that if you are flanked by a rogue & a summoned monster you can ignore the summoned monster & thus halve the rogues power just like that.

Or to take out the rogues SA ability while your allies take out the summoned critter. This is actually used (cooler takes on one of his flankers knowing the bouncers will take the other).

Another example: fights usually start out as a method of ambush (your walking by, and get jumped). This is diffused by those who are alert by watching the possible attacker. It lets him know that he doen't have the surprise he wants, but it may leave you exposed to someone else (you ignored his buddy).

The tactic isn't useful for more than a round or two, but it's a great example of cooperative combat. The flankers will have to improve their own methods because of this.

Personally, I think it's great. Rogues developes a devestating combat tactic, so others developed a counter. Evolution at its finest!

YMMV.

 

[Panask]

IIRC, a recent Sage ruling states that an invisible entity could not provide flanking bonuses to another entity it otherwise would, because flanking was determined by the attackers cooperating, not by the defender being distracted.

That's something I never heard before. And it has interesting implications - for example, if the invisible opponent's ally is under the effect of a see invisible spell, then flanking would be restored.

However, earlier somebody said, on this subject, that you can't flank a blind opponent, which would seem in conflict with the possible Sage ruling. Anybody know if the Sage has signed up for one or the other? Or Both?

By the way, thank you one and all for your interesting answers. The players IMC were convinced that this was a settled question, detailed somewhere in the DMG or some other WotC publication. I see we were way off.

Panask
Servitar of Baldur

 

[Nifft]

IIRC, a recent Sage ruling states that an invisible entity could not provide flanking bonuses to another entity it otherwise would, because flanking was determined by the attackers cooperating, not by the defender being distracted.

Hey! That's my house rule! I've had that up on my site for like three years now... hrmph!

-- N

PS = Pesky Sage, housin' my house rules...

 

[Raven Crowking]

My solution to this problem was based on the idea of creatures with DR ignoring those whose weapons were proven to bounce off them in order to avoid giving flanking bonuses to those with special weaponry. It is as follows:


Ignore Opponent: In some cases, you may feel that an opponent is completely unable to harm you, or that whatever harm that opponent can do is relatively meaningless. As a free action, you can make a Concentration check (DC 10 + any damage that opponent has given you since your last turn) on your turn to ignore that opponent. An ignored opponent doesn’t count when determining whether or not you are flanked and cannot successfully use the Aid Another action to help another combatant’s attack against you. However, you cannot take attacks of opportunity against an ignored opponent, and you are considered to be flat-footed against that opponent’s attacks. Ignoring an opponent is active until your next turn.


RC

 

[Arnwyn]

Is it possible for a character to simply ignore a specific opponent, so that the opponent's ally wouldn't flank? If so, what advantages would the ignored opponent have against the character, and what other disadvantages (if any) would the character face?

I'm interested in how anybody handles this in their campaign.

We would never have to handle such a thing in our campaign, as it would be quite silly.

Completely ignore an opponent? We would rule that, mechanically, the character would be considered "helpless" against the ignored component, and the coup de grace action would be readily available.

 

[Janx]

By definition, that's what flanking is doing. You can't pay as good attention to not getting hit when 2 guys physically flank you. As a result BOTH guys get a +2 bonus to hit you.

Whether you envision your character switching back and forth between to 2 bad guys or focusing on just one guy, the effect is really the same.

If you really wanted to model this with a special rule, consider if I focused on one guy, in theory, that guy might be denied the flank bonus against me, but in effect, I giving his bonus to the other guy (effectively giving him a +4 to hit me).

This might also be looked at as the inverse of Dodge. With Dodge, you're focussing on one opponent and getting a bonus to you AC. the other guys don't get a penalty. If your PC doesn't have Dodge, than you aren't really skilled at altering your concentration on a per opponent basis.

Janx

 

[Storm Raven]

What I meant by that is you are not able to carefully slit the person's throat (they are still moving about fighting the other opponent), you cannot read his palm, you cannot give him a kiss (on the lips), you cannot shave his beard, etc. It isn't that the ignoring character is monitoring the opponent as much as it is his activity in combat with the other opponent makes certain actions very difficult (unlike a held/paralyzed/sleeping opponent)...

If you are paying enough attention to the "ignored" opponent as to prevent those sorts of things, then you are not actually "ignoring" them. You are still paying attention to them. I rule that if you ignore an opponent, you are treated as helpless with respect to that opponent for as long as you ignore them.

Yes, that does mean they may coup de grace you. If you weren't ignoring them, they would not be able to do that.

 

[Raven Crowking]

If you are paying enough attention to the "ignored" opponent as to prevent those sorts of things, then you are not actually "ignoring" them. You are still paying attention to them. I rule that if you ignore an opponent, you are treated as helpless with respect to that opponent for as long as you ignore them.

Yes, that does mean they may coup de grace you. If you weren't ignoring them, they would not be able to do that.

So, do you then rule that you are helpless before an invisible opponent? What about an opponent you are not aware of, such as a sniper hiding in the trees?

Helpless against and unaware of/ignoring are not the same thing. At all.

"Unaware of/ignoring" and "flat-footed with respect to" are, however, potentially equivilent in game terms.

We also have a skill (Concentration) whose purpose is to allow you to ignore things. Doesn't take too much to put them both together.

Sometimes, in this game, it is better for a creature to be flat-footed to one opponent than to take its eyes off another.

RC