Can I make a really 'frilly' Wall of Force?

[Norfleet]

Furthermore, many people are assuming that the Wall of Force is very hard or infinitely hard. It could be that objects slamming into the WoF are slowed down gently. That boat might take very minor damage or it might take massive damage; the spell description is unilluminating on this point.

The wall of force is said to be immobile: As a two-dimensional construct, it can't be compressed. This means any deceleration incurred on contact with a wall of force must be accomplished through compression of the impacting object, not the wall: The response of the object to impacting the wall of force obviously varies: A rubber ball simply bounces off unscathed, as the compression process is harmless to it: A more incompressible, rigid object, such as a vase, would shatter.

The interesting degenerative case is what happens when an object collides with a wall of force edgewise: Walls of force are not given a thickness. A messy, gruesome effect would undoubtedly occur should a hapless victim collide with the wall of force edgewise, "impale" himself upon it, and then find himself neatly bisected by the wall of force, much in the manner of previously described monofilament walls, with the noteworthy difference that the wall of force in this configuration is definitely within standard configuration.

The relevant section which could potentially shed light on this states "The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails." Unfortunately, this doesn't address this case at all: It merely states that the wall of force cannot be erected in such a configuration as to bisect a creature who was present first: If a creature subsequently collides endwise with the wall of force, the surface of the wall would not be broken. The same cannot be said for the surface of the misunfortunate creature, but that is covered in the spell description: Since walls of force are "immune damage of all kinds", and "cannot move", it logically follows that the hapless creature would be messily bisected, with all attendant consequences: For most creatures, this tends to translate into nearly immediate death, as bisection is typically not considered to be survivable by non-regenerating large multicellular life. Even a regenerating creature like a troll would find this effect immensely inconvenient and undoubtedly quite vexing. Effects on more unusual lifeforms and non-lifeforms would vary: Blobs would suffer as if cut in half, which would result in two smaller blobs, while a gelatinous cube would be transformed into a pair of gelatinous prisms. A bisected skeleton, zombie, or golem might "survive", if something nonliving can ever be considered to be surviving, but would certainly suffer a significant reduction in threat capability and mobility.

 

[hong]

The entire point of these spells *IS* to abuse them.

Ah, this must be a new meaning of "point" that I wasn't aware of before.

In my campaigns, players are ENCOURAGED to innovate and try stunts like this. As long as the trick is good, rather than simply stupid, I allow, encourage, and sometimes even require it.

Ah, this must be a new meaning of "good" that I wasn't aware of before.


Hong "same old meaning of stupid, though" Ooi

 

[Norfleet]

Well, hong, it should be rather obvious to anyone that to fall into tired, repetitive patterns of spell usage makes one very predictable. If you always enter a building through the door, people come to expect this, and therefore will start preparing for your entrance through the door. Therefore, you surprise them by going in through a wall. Similarly, spells should be used in frequently unorthodox ways: Otherwise, they become as predictable as door usage.

The simple surprise value of using a "defensive" tool in a more offensive manner should be enough to catch people completely off guard, and when people are caught completely off guard, in D&D terms, this can equate to things such as opportunities for CDGs, sneak attacks, and saving throw penalties or even loss. When people are hit by a disintegrate spell, they get a fort save. Bleh. When people are crushed under thousands of tons of rock due to the disintegration of a load-bearing structure 3 floors above them that triggered a massive cave-in that collapsed through multiple levels, they don't get a save! Ha!

In effect, by giving the spells an intended purpose, and making very generous avoidance systems against that intended purpose, you've rendered that purpose the least effective way to use it. By misusing it, you once again regain the all important SURPRISE AND TERROR! And that's the entire point.

Without surprise and terror, you're left with something which is just kind of pedestrian and dull.

 

[hong]

The simple surprise value of using a "defensive" tool in a more offensive manner should be enough to catch people completely off guard, and when people are caught completely off guard, in D&D terms, this can equate to things such as opportunities for CDGs, sneak attacks, and saving throw penalties or even loss. When people are hit by a disintegrate spell, they get a fort save. Bleh. When people are crushed under thousands of tons of rock due to the disintegration of a load-bearing structure 3 floors above them that triggered a massive cave-in that collapsed through multiple levels, they don't get a save! Ha!

Yes, yes, but all of this pales into insignificance compared to my TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS.

In effect, by giving the spells an intended purpose, and making very generous avoidance systems against that intended purpose, you've rendered that purpose the least effective way to use it. By misusing it, you once again regain the all important SURPRISE AND TERROR! And that's the entire point.

With a TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS, I seize the privilege of defining the point to suit myself.

Without surprise and terror, you're left with something which is just kind of pedestrian and dull.

There is nothing pedestrian and dull about a TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS, I can tell you.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The wall of force is said to be immobile: As a two-dimensional construct, it can't be compressed. This means any deceleration incurred on contact with a wall of force must be accomplished through compression of the impacting object, not the wall: The response of the object to impacting the wall of force obviously varies: A rubber ball simply bounces off unscathed, as the compression process is harmless to it: A more incompressible, rigid object, such as a vase, would shatter.

No offense intended, but the pseudoscience gibberish is getting pretty think here.

Where in the PHB does it say that the Wall of Force is a two dimensional object? Nowhere.

All we really know is that the Wall of Force is impenetrable, that its chosen thickness is irrelevant, and that its chosen geometry must be a flat vertical plane. Do not confuse geometry with actual physical dimensions -- look at the Wall of Ice description.

I can easily model the Wall of Force as having thickness while being 100% consistent with the letter of the spell description, and my model will have none of the kooky side effects you are concerned with.

 

[HeavyG]

In other words, nowhere is it mentioned that the "edge" of a wall of force is sharp. It might very well be blunt, kinda.

*insert disclaimer about not inserting too much science into a fantasy game*

 

[Pbartender]

Firstly, remember... Anything the PCs can do, so can the NPCs. Conversely, anything the NPCs can do, so can the PCs. Be careful on what you allow this spell to do.

In other words, nowhere is it mentioned that the "edge" of a wall of force is sharp. It might very well be blunt, kinda.

*insert disclaimer about not inserting too much science into a fantasy game*

*Blatantly ignoring said disclaimer.*

If, as others have claimed, the Wall of Force is indeed 2-dimensional (though the spell says nothing of the sort), it would have NO thickness what-so-ever. Not an infinitely sharp, infinitesimal thickness... NO thickness.

That means, theoretically, that if you walk into the edge of such a force field, nothing happens... Because looking at it sideways, it's not there. Granted, you would not be able to step sideways, because the height and width of the wall do exist and would prevent lateral movement (even that's debatable). But nothing would stop you from 'sliding' forward and backward, or up and down along the plane. (That'd make for an interesting way to climb a wall, eh?)

There is a very big difference between a monofilament plane, and a 2-dimensional plane. Unfortunately, no one has ever created either, so there's no practical experiment to tes the theories.

Though I have no qualms about using spells creatively, there are certain things certain spells shouldn't be able to do. Like every other 'Wall' spell, Wall of Force is meant to be a hinderance to the enemy... to contain and deflect them. Not to kill them. That's what Disintegrate and Fireball are for. Ingenuity does have a limit here.

Use just a little common sense.

 

[Norfleet]

There is nothing pedestrian and dull about a TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS, I can tell you.

Indeed, there is not. And there is great surprise and terror in 10-inch titanium penii, as it would certainly surprise and terrify *ME*. And few things do.

That means, theoretically, that if you walk into the edge of such a force field, nothing happens... Because looking at it sideways, it's not there. Granted, you would not be able to step sideways, because the height and width of the wall do exist and would prevent lateral movement (even that's debatable). But nothing would stop you from 'sliding' forward and backward, or up and down along the plane. (That'd make for an interesting way to climb a wall, eh?)

There is a very big difference between a monofilament plane, and a 2-dimensional plane. Unfortunately, no one has ever created either, so there's no practical experiment to tes the theories.

Though I have no qualms about using spells creatively, there are certain things certain spells shouldn't be able to do. Like every other 'Wall' spell, Wall of Force is meant to be a hinderance to the enemy... to contain and deflect them. Not to kill them. That's what Disintegrate and Fireball are for. Ingenuity does have a limit here.

While sliding into the wall is, in and of itself, harmless, the bisected creature may suddenly find that it is very impossible to circulate blood from one side of his body to the other, due to the impediment of the wall of force running through him. Since walls of force are impenetrable, anything which involved coordinating parts of the body on opposite sides of the wall would be impossible. If the subject attempted to move sideways in the least, the part of his body that would be stuck against the wall would be unable to move, while the other part would be free to do so: Since the wall of force is impenetrable, force cannot be transmitted through the wall of force: As a result, the part of the body which is pressed against the wall would not be able to prevent the motion of the other part: The victim would be cut in half, messily.

Walls of Force are *MEANT* to be a hindrance, yes. Lead pipes are also meant to be used for plumbing, but this does not mean they cannot also be misused as blunt instruments with which to crush an opponent's skull like a wet, soggy melon. As I've pointed out, if you use things for their intended purpose, you become predictable.

 

[Pielorinho]

I have a rule in my game: any spell that becomes markedly more powerful in most situations when used in an unorthodox manner gets nerfed.

I request my DMs to use a similar rule in their games.

Why? Because D&D is at its best when there's no magic bullet, when different situations call for different tactics. If just about every battle can be won by casting a wall of force "monofilament", the game quickly becomes boring. (And yes, just about every battle could be won with this maneuver: the only common exceptions would be enemies expecting a monofilament attack and possessing sufficient magical means to disrupt the attack).

Creative spell-use is good. Abuse of spells to make a character regularly more powerful than all the other characters is bad.

My solution? A wall of force is either shapeable (in which case no dimension may be less than 10'), or it is not shapeable (in which case I'll rule it as a square). The spell is plenty good if it creates an invisible square barrier.

It may be that the monofilament points to a place where the rules need to be errata'ed. I would not in a million years allow such cheese in my game.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

As for hitting it from the edge: the simplest answer would be to declare that the wall of force is broken if it's hit from the edge, since the rules give no means for the wall to do damage and no parameters for the wall's stopping a sideways approach. Once there's a body in the middle of the wall, the wall is no longer unbroken, and so it's dispelled.

Not how you'd expect it to work? It's the mystery of magic that makes it grand!

Daniel