keterys
First Post
Again, there's no actual rule as written... if you declare them free actions, then they can't. If you declare them no actions, then they can.
There are several ways to do infinite damage if they are no actions, actually.
Can I make multiple extra melee attacks with one crit?
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There are several ways to do infinite damage if they are no actions, actually.
Ferghis
First Post
I agree with much of the discussion regarding RAW, but I think keterys is making the better point. I don't necessarily agree with his take on RAW (I think the literal reading of powers that don't specify an action type are no action types), but his point is an excellent one.
I believe that the clear spirit of the extra free action attacks rule is to limit the number of attacks one character can have in a turn. Unless someone shows me where this notion might be mistaken, I would rule that all such extra attacks (at the very least: ones that do not specify an action type) are free actions for the purposes of that rule. Otherwise, the spirit of the rule is undermined by these imperfections (and there are many), and it should not be.
I believe that the clear spirit of the extra free action attacks rule is to limit the number of attacks one character can have in a turn. Unless someone shows me where this notion might be mistaken, I would rule that all such extra attacks (at the very least: ones that do not specify an action type) are free actions for the purposes of that rule. Otherwise, the spirit of the rule is undermined by these imperfections (and there are many), and it should not be.
keterys
First Post
Yeah, my stance is not the most popular one... but it's also the one you get if you play with WotC designers and editors, and born out by the rules update process.
The sad part is, my stance _was_ popular before the free action attack nerf. No one thought you could use Spelltracer, Hail of Steel, etc to grant attacks to dead allies. But as soon as that free action limit kicked in, folks were adamant about how it didn't specify it was a free action
The sad part is, my stance _was_ popular before the free action attack nerf. No one thought you could use Spelltracer, Hail of Steel, etc to grant attacks to dead allies. But as soon as that free action limit kicked in, folks were adamant about how it didn't specify it was a free action
Colmarr
First Post
The conversation seems to have moved to a discussion of consecutive basic attacks from consecutive fritz, which is a different question to the OP's.
On the original question, my view is that neither the item nor the feat specify that the free attacks are stackable. IMO, the mere fact that you have two ways of granting a basic attack doesn't mean you take two basic attacks from the same trigger.
On the original question, my view is that neither the item nor the feat specify that the free attacks are stackable. IMO, the mere fact that you have two ways of granting a basic attack doesn't mean you take two basic attacks from the same trigger.
Dr_Ruminahui
First Post
So, do you mean that if you have a feat that lets you gain 4 HP when first bloodied, and an item power that lets you spend a surge to gain HPs when first bloodied, you could only do one of them?
I can't agree with that.
I can't agree with that.
Colmarr
First Post
Hit points is an odd one because it's inherent to the hp system that they stack.
Bonus attacks stand alone as far as I can tell. Everything else is trigger X causes bonus/penalty Y. When it comes to bonuses, the + and the - imply stacking, but I can't see anything that implies 'stacking' for bonus attacks.
Trigger A allows you to make a bonus attack via item X. Trigger A also allows you to make a bonus attack via feat Y. But it's still just a bonus attack.
Bonus attacks stand alone as far as I can tell. Everything else is trigger X causes bonus/penalty Y. When it comes to bonuses, the + and the - imply stacking, but I can't see anything that implies 'stacking' for bonus attacks.
Trigger A allows you to make a bonus attack via item X. Trigger A also allows you to make a bonus attack via feat Y. But it's still just a bonus attack.
But they come from Item X and Feat Y so nothing in the rules says they can't both occur.
Unless they hit a "stated" stacking issue (like one "free action attack per turn") they are fine to both occur - it has no effect that the trigger was the same event for both of them.
It is the same as when a monster uses a Ranged attack next to a fighter who marked it, without targetting the fighter.
The trigger "event" (the mob's attack) is the same for both the OA and II attacks the fighter can do but it doesn't stop the fighter doing both his MarkPunishment and the OppertunityAttack.
Same with any two (or more) things that trigger off a single event imo.
Unless they hit a "stated" stacking issue (like one "free action attack per turn") they are fine to both occur - it has no effect that the trigger was the same event for both of them.
It is the same as when a monster uses a Ranged attack next to a fighter who marked it, without targetting the fighter.
The trigger "event" (the mob's attack) is the same for both the OA and II attacks the fighter can do but it doesn't stop the fighter doing both his MarkPunishment and the OppertunityAttack.
Same with any two (or more) things that trigger off a single event imo.
