Can I wear a symbol of death on my armor?

[roguerouge]

Symbol of Persuasion will end fights completely, has no HP limit, doesn't make you a mass-murderer if it accidentally goes off in a town, and is more accessible (as it is a lower-level spell), and it's cheaper to Permenency. Down side: More stuff is immune, lower save (although you can Heighten it, if your party Wizard or Cleric has that feat, to get rid of that issue).

There's another potential down side, if you happen to have watched Buster Keaton's Seven Chances or the "Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered" episode of Joss Whedon's Buffy the Vampire Slayer, an affectionate adaptation of that Keaton classic.

 

[Jack Simth]

There's another potential down side, if you happen to have watched Buster Keaton's Seven Chances or the "Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered" episode of Joss Whedon's Buffy the Vampire Slayer, an affectionate adaptation of that Keaton classic.

Fortunately, Charm Person isn't a love spell that'll make them all fighting over who gets to rape you; they're simply treated as friendly.

 

[Infiniti2000]

However, you can set up any triggering condition you like - "when something attacks me in a manner that would end the Sor/Wiz 2 invisibility spell" is a technically defensive use that'll come up a lot when you're playing offense.

I don't agree with that interpretation. It is not a contingency. The triggering conditions have to be one of five things: "As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune."

What takes it from the default are the triggering limitation (but note they are not alternate conditions): "You can also set special triggering limitations of your own. These can be as simple or elaborate as you desire. Special conditions for triggering a symbol of death can be based on a creature’s name, identity, or alignment, but otherwise must be based on observable actions or qualities. Intangibles such as level, class, Hit Dice, and hit points don’t qualify."

So, I don't think your example would qualify.

The downside to a symbol on your armor is, IMO, the argument of prominently displaying the symbol. You'd literally have to puff out your breast-plate-armored chest all the time for it to function. I would say that, for example, holding a weapon in your two hands or wielding a shield would not qualify as plain sight and prominent. Maybe holding a one-handed weapon and no shielf, maybe.

 

[Jack Simth]

Not a reading I've run across before, but whatever. Once you've got a handle on how it works (which a decent spellcraft check should do), it's abusable. So you use a Symbol of Persuasion, don't attune it to your allies, and set them all to Touch. Whenever your barbarian friend draws his greatsword, he touches it. He's aware of the plan in advance, and it's not one that'll kill him, or even stop his course of action (he's already friendly to the caster) it triggers. If a greatsword in the way of your breastplate means that the breastplate isn't prominently displayed, then the greatsword is. Get him two greatswords, Permanency them, and have him switch them out once per hour. As long as your allies are actually allies, you'll be fine (and if they're not, well, they are now...). If you like, you can also Mind-blank them so that they can't actually be affected by it anyway.

Likewise, if using a shield gets in the way of using the breastplate, put it on the shield (or the back of a cloak). Get everyone in the party set up this way, keep them all active, and whenever an opponent comes within 60 feet, they have to make four saves to avoid losing (unless protected by racial abilities, Mind Blank, or whatever).

 

[awayfarer]

Unless he and the rest of the party are blind, this is probably a really bad idea.

Cheers, -- N

Jim: Hey Ted, there's a spot on your shirt
Ted: What? There's no...*Thud* (dead)

 

[Folly]

Not a reading I've run across before, but whatever. Once you've got a handle on how it works (which a decent spellcraft check should do), it's abusable. So you use a Symbol of Persuasion, don't attune it to your allies, and set them all to Touch. Whenever your barbarian friend draws his greatsword, he touches it. He's aware of the plan in advance, and it's not one that'll kill him, or even stop his course of action (he's already friendly to the caster) it triggers. If a greatsword in the way of your breastplate means that the breastplate isn't prominently displayed, then the greatsword is. Get him two greatswords, Permanency them, and have him switch them out once per hour. As long as your allies are actually allies, you'll be fine (and if they're not, well, they are now...). If you like, you can also Mind-blank them so that they can't actually be affected by it anyway.

Likewise, if using a shield gets in the way of using the breastplate, put it on the shield (or the back of a cloak). Get everyone in the party set up this way, keep them all active, and whenever an opponent comes within 60 feet, they have to make four saves to avoid losing (unless protected by racial abilities, Mind Blank, or whatever).

Being friendly does not prohibit the person from attacking the party, it makes it much less likely. There are situations in which a person would attack their friends.

 

[Jack Simth]

Being friendly does not prohibit the person from attacking the party, it makes it much less likely. There are situations in which a person would attack their friends.

Yes, there are. They're also few and far between. And in such cases, you get an opposed Charisma check to make them not attack you anyway (Symbol of Persuasion inherits from Charm Monster, which inherits from Charm Person, which has a nifty clause about getting a charmed subject to do things they normally wouldn't).

If you're worried about it, at high levels, you can also Mind Blank the entire party and use Symbols of Sleep, instead, with exactly the same strategy (other than that you can now CdG any subject opponent that didn't make all the saves). Or use Symbols of Sleep and have an all-elf or half-elf party (elves and half-elves being immune to magical sleep effects).

 

[Artoomis]

It seems legitimate, provided that one structures it within the restriction of "You can’t use a symbol of death offensively."

Of course, at 5,000 GP each casting (+4,000 exp pts if permanent) this gets expensive quickly, though, since it can only be cast at high levels, this may not be too big an issue.

Personally, I'd not allow it for two reasons:

1. It does not appear to be intended to be used this way. A DM could make a ruling on this by interpreting the word "surface" to exclude personal equipment, or ruling that this is really an offensive use and thus fails.

2. If allowed, how long will it be before all your enemies have various mutiple permanent (defensive use only ) symbols on them? Do you really want to frequently start combats having to multiple saving throws against numerous effects? This would happen as word of your tactic spread, as it surely would.

 

[Zanticor]

The question of using a symbol of death in combat has been bothering me as well. The Ultroloth Yugoloth in MMIII on page 204 has the at will ability to do it one a day. In the tactical part it says that "if the battle hangs in the balance, it uses it to disrupt the enemy". Can anyone give me pointers to how it uses it? Seems like some of the designers thought it would be acceptable to use it in combat.

Zanticor