Can poison kill?
- Thread starter Marimmar@Home
- Start date
One should always keep track of how many hp are rolled at each level, this is important for more than one aspect of the game.
Also, one should keep track of the order of classes gained, what skill points were used, when and where boosting stats occured, etc.
Basically, everything that changes on the character should be known.
In addition. If you are a 10th level mage with a con of 12 and 23 max hp and take 30 damage (at -7) and then take a point of con damage say hello to being dead. Same problem with high level barbs really.
Also, one should keep track of the order of classes gained, what skill points were used, when and where boosting stats occured, etc.
Basically, everything that changes on the character should be known.
In addition. If you are a 10th level mage with a con of 12 and 23 max hp and take 30 damage (at -7) and then take a point of con damage say hello to being dead. Same problem with high level barbs really.
MerakSpielman
First Post
You know, this is something I've always wondered about.Thanee said:
Allow me to present a scenario:
We have a 5th level Fighter with 14 CON and 50 hp. Let's say now that he loses 4 points of CON, due to poison or whatever. He loses 2 hp per level, and now has 40 hp, right? I think we can all agree on that.
But what happens if he is already injured? Say our dear fighter has been reduced to 10 hp, and THEN he loses 4 points of CON. His maximum hp has been reduced to 40, but what happens to his current hp? Going from 50 to 40 is a 20% decrease, so does his current hp reduce by 2 (a 20% decrease), or does he lose a full 10 hp (a 100% decrease)?
Thanee
First Post
Hit point loss from Con loss lowers maximum hit points, while damage is applied dynamically, so to say. 
Thus the Fighter goes down from 50 to 40 maximum hit points and also his current hit points get lowered by 10 immediately, since the damage is now deducted from 40 and not from 50 anymore.
And yes, this can kill you.
Bye
Thanee
Thus the Fighter goes down from 50 to 40 maximum hit points and also his current hit points get lowered by 10 immediately, since the damage is now deducted from 40 and not from 50 anymore.
And yes, this can kill you.
Bye
Thanee
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Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
MerakSpielman said:
So, in other words, he's rolled on average 9.5 for each level-up. There's a small chance that he's rolled a 1 somewhere along the line, since he must come up with 38 hp on 4 rolls, or 35 hp on 3 rolls (assuming a single roll of a 1). Note that in no case could he have rolled multiple 1s, since then he'd need 32 hp on 2 rolls.
Summary:
CL | New HP | Total HP | 50 less HP
1 | 12 | 12 | 38
2 | 3 | 15 | 35
3 | 3 | 18 | 32
4 | 12 | 30 | 20
5 | 12 | 42 | 8
So, we'll assume he has max 1st-level HP, and average after that:
CL | New HP | Total HP | 50 Less HP
1 | 12 | 12 | 38
2 | 10 | 22 | 28
3 | 9 | 31 | 19
4 | 10 | 41 | 9
5 | 9 | 50 | 0
Correct. In fact, what happens is he changes to:
CL | New HP | Total HP
1 | 10 | 10
2 | 8 | 18
3 | 7 | 25
4 | 8 | 33
5 | 7 | 40
Note that, in this case, he loses 10 current and 10 max HP, because the reduction in Con bonus does not cause any individual HD roll to hit the 1 point minimum.
He loses, again, 10 current and 10 max HP, dropping him to 0 / 40. He's staggered.
If he was already staggered (at 0 / 50) when the Con damage was dealt, he'd drop dead immediately.
EDIT:
OK, for fun, we'll assume that the Fighter 5 with 50 HPs had been unlucky once while rolling his HP, but very lucky the rest of the time. His hit point progression now looks like:
CL | New HP | Total HP | 50 less HP
1 | 12 | 12 | 38
2 | 3 | 15 | 35
3 | 12 | 27 | 23
4 | 12 | 39 | 11
5 | 11 | 50 | 0
Now, instead of being hit with a 4-point Con damage attack (which is just enough to set his Con bonus to 0), he's instead hit with a 6-point Con damage attack. What happens? The knee-jerk reaction is that he's now at 50 - (3 * 5) = 35 Max and Current HPs (and, generally, this formulation will work).
However, that 3 at 2nd-level causes a bit of a problem, since it cannot be reduced to less than 1. So, what really happens is his HP progression changes to:
CL | New HP | Total HP
1 | 9 | 9
2 | 1 | 10
3 | 9 | 19
4 | 9 | 28
5 | 8 | 36
Similarly, another 2 points of Con damage will only reduce his max and current HP by 4, since his 2nd-level HP have bottomed out.
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MerakSpielman
First Post
Well folks, that is indeed the way I've been playing it for years.
But let me argue anyway, as the Devil's Advocate I often am.
Hit points are abstract, right?
So we can assume that a commoner who has 6 hp, and then loses 3 hp, is as injured (in terms of the physical wounds visible on his body) as a 10th level fighter with 100 hp, who has lost 50 hp. They're both half dead, but the fighter was able to take more hp worth of damage because of his skill, divine favor, luck, or whatever.
So, doesn't it make sense that somebody who is half dead, when their potential maximum hp is lowered, would still be half dead? That, given the fighter from the previous example, if he were at 25 hp, and his CON lowered and his max hp was lowered to 40 hp, that he would simply be reduced to 20 hp?
But let me argue anyway, as the Devil's Advocate I often am.
Hit points are abstract, right?
So we can assume that a commoner who has 6 hp, and then loses 3 hp, is as injured (in terms of the physical wounds visible on his body) as a 10th level fighter with 100 hp, who has lost 50 hp. They're both half dead, but the fighter was able to take more hp worth of damage because of his skill, divine favor, luck, or whatever.
So, doesn't it make sense that somebody who is half dead, when their potential maximum hp is lowered, would still be half dead? That, given the fighter from the previous example, if he were at 25 hp, and his CON lowered and his max hp was lowered to 40 hp, that he would simply be reduced to 20 hp?
Thanee
First Post
How so? The loss in hit points was already proportional to the level (as normal with Con loss). You want to make it "double proportional".
And why should Con loss hurt you less, when you are wounded?
Besides, there is really very little logic in hit points.
Bye
Thanee
And why should Con loss hurt you less, when you are wounded?
Besides, there is really very little logic in hit points.
Bye
Thanee
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Thanee
First Post
@Patryn: I'm pretty sure, that it's not correct to look at the individual hit die rolls apart from the point, when you level up. Only then you gain at least 1 hp.
Later, the other rule (as quoted above by Knight Otu) is in effect, that you have a minimum number of (maximum, not current) hit points equal to the number of your hit dice.
Thus, as long as the total does not get lower than your hit dice, Con loss always affects your hit points at full strength. The individual rolls are irrelevant.
Bye
Thanee
Later, the other rule (as quoted above by Knight Otu) is in effect, that you have a minimum number of (maximum, not current) hit points equal to the number of your hit dice.
Thus, as long as the total does not get lower than your hit dice, Con loss always affects your hit points at full strength. The individual rolls are irrelevant.
Bye
Thanee
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
I'm not sure it's the correct way to do it, either, Thanee, but then you end up in situations where the only possible way to get your current HP total is to have 0 or fewer HP for a given level-up - especially if we get into permanent ability drain.
MerakSpielman
First Post
It kind of depends on how your calculating it in your head. Say you have a CON bonus of +2, and you're a 5th level paladin. (I'm ignoring the complication of getting full hp at 1st level for the moment).Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Do you have 5d10+10 hp?
Or do you have (1d10+2)+(1d10+2)+(1d10+2)+(1d10+2)+(1d10+2) hp?
If you're thinking along the lines of the second equation, then the CON loss is included in the parantheses, and if one of the 1d10 rolls is a 1 or 2, it will be reduced to ONE, not -1 or 0.
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