Can poison kill?

[Li Shenron]

It is impossible to die from hp damage from losing Con.

What you say is right. After all, there is NO HP DAMAGE at all from losing Con. If you don't already have accumulated damage from another source, you cannot die. You could die if you already had enough lethal damage that once your total (and current hp) are reduced by Con, you find yourself at -10 hp.

 

[Thanee]

You're missing some of the text of the PHB. The first bit of description says:

"Use this skill to keep a badly wounded friend from dying, to help others recover faster from wounds, to keep your friend from succumbing to a wyvern's poison sting, or to treat disease."

That says to me that you can't generally use it on yourself. I generally require a heal check to come from someone else other than the character on who's behalf the heal skill is applied.

Well, I generally stick to the rule text to see what something can or cannot do.

The flavor text, while it certainly gives you an idea what it is about, does not really say how it works in context with the rules.

If they specifically mention it under Long-Term Care, then this means to me, that it is not generally applicable, as then it would have a rule about that somewhere else.

And from a logical point of view, I don't really see the problem either. Why should someone not use the knowledge to fight disease or poison on oneself?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

What you say is right. After all, there is NO HP DAMAGE at all from losing Con. If you don't already have accumulated damage from another source, you cannot die. You could die if you already had enough lethal damage that once your total (and current hp) are reduced by Con, you find yourself at -10 hp.

Technically, it is possible to die from Con loss without reaching 0.

I.e. a 10th level wizard with a Con drained to 1 has -5 hp per hit die and thus at least -10 hit points (if rolled maximum on all levels).



Or is there a rule, that prevents this (i.e. minimum of 1 hp/HD)?

You apply your character’s Constitution modifier to:

Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he or she advances in level).

Hmm... does this apply to penalties you obtain later? Or only during level up?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henrix]

Or is there a rule, that prevents this (i.e. minimum of 1 hp/HD)?

Yes. Changing con is the same as having the stat earlier, I think. So I'd say that con loss cannot take you below the minimum 1 hp/hd.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... but wouldn't that mean, that you have to write down each individual hit die roll?

For example... Wizard 10th has rolled all 4's up to 9th level and then a 1 on 10th. He has a Con of 10.

Now his Con is damaged down to 8. He would lose only 9 hp then, since the 10th level roll cannot be reduced below 1.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henrix]

Technically you could do it that way, but just limiting the effects of con loss to minimum 1 hp/hd will make life a little easier for the low HD characters.
If you don't poison will be a lot more dangerous to Wiz/Sor than it already is (having bad fort saves and probably lower con than the others).

We actually keep track of hit points rolled per level as it makes it easier if you lose a level, but keeping track of lowered hp from temporary con loss by each is too much trouble.

 

[Li Shenron]

Hmm... but wouldn't that mean, that you have to write down each individual hit die roll?

For example... Wizard 10th has rolled all 4's up to 9th level and then a 1 on 10th. He has a Con of 10.

Now his Con is damaged down to 8. He would lose only 9 hp then, since the 10th level roll cannot be reduced below 1.

Bye
Thanee

I think it's quite acknowledge that the minimum of 1 hp per HD is kind of general.

If the wizard started with Con 10 and rolled all 1s he has for example 13hp at 10th level, but no matter the Con penalty, they can't drop below a minimum of 10hp from Con decrease only.

And how exactly the rolls were done doesn't really apply: you're not decreasing 1hp from each die, you're rather decreasing as many hp as you have hit dice, until the minimum.

That's how I play at least...

 

[Knight Otu]

The rule should at least be in the DMG:

If a character’s Constitution score drops, then he loses 1 hit point per Hit Die for every point by which his Constitution modifier drops. A hit point score can’t be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less than 1 hit point per Hit Die.

That's from the abilities and conditions file of the SRD.

 

[Thanee]

Ah, that's very clear. Thanks, Knight Otu.

Bye
Thanee

 

[tensen]

It is impossible to die from hp damage from losing Con. The modifier reduced (not damage dealt) is your bonus to your hp rolls. These rolls have a minimum of 1, regardless of how unbelievably flimsy you are. Ergo, it is impossible to be killed by Con loss before you hit 0 Con. At that point you are dead, but for other reasons.

Now, it can lower your max hp below your current total damage. However, I am sure that any sensible cleric facing Con damage would drop whatever spells he needed to to get to full hp, for exactly this reason.

Well, yes, they do have the 10 rounds to make the necessary healing. But impossible? Not hardly. Very easy to be injured before taking the Con damage.

Note, the Con damage has a bit of a wording problem. Because effectively it does say that you can't take more damage from the Con loss to take you below 1/hp/hd. But exactly what does that mean? Can you have tons of other injures, but stop taking damage as an 11th level character at 11hp? Or does the Con damage only take you to 11hp, but if you had other damage that continued.

Since you receive damage from taking Con drain that is not healed when the Con stat is regained through Lesser Restoration or the like, is it counted as damage.. so that the first Con loss is still considered damage and can help kill you?