Can poison kill?

[Thanee]

One other thing... the item makes you more resilient to poison already, by raising your stat (and giving a better save), but it doesn't make you immune. Also, it's not like the item is drained, you just have suffered so much damage, that even with the enhancing magic, your body collapses (also see above example).

Bye
Thanee

 

[billd91]

Just one point on this.

You do realise that you can use a heal check to grant, in effect, a second save against poison, right?

At a guess, your cleric has a pretty good wisdom. Even an untrained heal check probably has a good chance of allowing survival.

While it's true that the heal check can be used to take the place of the poison save, it's also generally true that the heal skill is useable on other characters. In this case, the heal would have to be applied by someone other than the stricken cleric. Is that a good argument for having more than one character in the party with a few heal ranks? Sure.

I would just tell the players that you made an honest mistake and they benefited from it, so no penalties will apply. But let them also know that you're straight on that rule now and will apply it correctly in the future. They'll be understanding. It's a time-honored tradition in a number of games, even written into the rules for Advanced Squad Leader, that if you make a mistake on the application of a rule and discover it after the turn has passed, then the play stands on the field. No do overs. Just carry on from there.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, that's what I would do as well. Just leave it as is and in future do it right.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Marimmar]

Yes, I already did.

Besides, I'm as a DM am not obligated to remind the players of their Skills and abilities. noone thought about using the Heal skill so no second save. I'm actually tired about remarks like, 'My character would know something like this and would (not) have done that.' Either they know their abilities or not, after all as players they have to keep track of only a single character.

~Marimmar

 

[Saeviomagy]

While it's true that the heal check can be used to take the place of the poison save, it's also generally true that the heal skill is useable on other characters. In this case, the heal would have to be applied by someone other than the stricken cleric. Is that a good argument for having more than one character in the party with a few heal ranks? Sure.

I don't see why a character should be precluded from treating their own poison.

The treatment, as far as I understand it, would involve applying a pressure bandage, cutting out some of the wound, giving a vomit-inducing compound, applying some sort of herbal infusion or even just hot or cold water.

I can't see why these things are not possible to do on oneself.

Barring other conditions, I wouldn't ban a player from EVER using the heal skill upon themselves.

 

[Thanee]

HEAL (WIS)

First Aid: You usually use first aid to save a dying character. If a character has negative hit points and is losing hit points (at the rate of 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), you can make him or her stable. A stable character regains no hit points but stops losing them.

Long-Term Care: Providing long-term care means treating a wounded person for a day or more. If your Heal check is successful, the patient recovers hit points or ability score points (lost to ability damage) at twice the normal rate: 2 hit points per level for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 hit points per level for each full day of complete rest; 2 ability score points for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 ability score points for each full day of complete rest. You can tend as many as six patients at a time. You need a few items and supplies (bandages, salves, and so on) that are easy to come by in settled lands. Giving long-term care counts as light activity for the healer. You cannot give long-term care to yourself.

Treat Wound from Caltrop, Spike Growth, or Spike Stones: A creature wounded by stepping on a caltrop moves at one-half normal speed. A successful Heal check removes this movement penalty.

A creature wounded by a spike growth or spike stones spell must succeed on a Reflex save or take injuries that reduce his speed by one-third. Another character can remove this penalty by taking 10 minutes to dress the victim’s injuries and succeeding on a Heal check against the spell’s save DC.

Treat Poison: To treat poison means to tend a single character who has been poisoned and who is going to take more damage from the poison (or suffer some other effect). Every time the poisoned character makes a saving throw against the poison, you make a Heal check. The poisoned character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.

Treat Disease: To treat a disease means to tend a single diseased character. Every time he or she makes a saving throw against disease effects, you make a Heal check. The diseased character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.

I don't see where it is generally true, that the heal skill is (only) useable on other characters.

Only Long-Term Care says so, and First Aid usually won't be useable on oneself for obvious reasons, tho there probably are (few) exceptions.

Bye
Thanee

 

[tensen]

Last session our party cleric got hurt by a trap that used wyvern poison. She failed both saves and was dealt 19 points of Con damage by the poison. With only a Con of 14 she would have died, but she wore an Amulet of Health +2 so my question is, does that give her a minimum Con score of 2 and makes her virtually immune to dying from Con damaging poisons or can ability scores from items be drained as well?

~Marimmar

You mean you didn't die from the hit point damage from losing that Con?
That would usually have made the discussion a moot point.

 

[billd91]

I don't see where it is generally true, that the heal skill is (only) useable on other characters.

Only Long-Term Care says so, and First Aid usually won't be useable on oneself for obvious reasons, tho there probably are (few) exceptions.

Bye
Thanee

You're missing some of the text of the PHB. The first bit of description says:

"Use this skill to keep a badly wounded friend from dying, to help others recover faster from wounds, to keep your friend from succumbing to a wyvern's poison sting, or to treat disease."

That says to me that you can't generally use it on yourself. I generally require a heal check to come from someone else other than the character on who's behalf the heal skill is applied.

 

[Kelleris]

It is impossible to die from hp damage from losing Con. The modifier reduced (not damage dealt) is your bonus to your hp rolls. These rolls have a minimum of 1, regardless of how unbelievably flimsy you are. Ergo, it is impossible to be killed by Con loss before you hit 0 Con. At that point you are dead, but for other reasons.

Now, it can lower your max hp below your current total damage. However, I am sure that any sensible cleric facing Con damage would drop whatever spells he needed to to get to full hp, for exactly this reason.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

You mean you didn't die from the hit point damage from losing that Con?
That would usually have made the discussion a moot point.

At most, you're down to 1hp/lvl from Con loss and since she was fully healed when she took 4 points of damage from the poison delivering arrow she wasn't in any danger of dying from damage.

~Marimmar