Can polymorph change you into ANY creature imaginable?

[gooeylouie]

No.

For the simple reason that the mechanics of the game simply don't support it - a creature that doesn't exist has no hit dice, no Str/Dex/Con scores, no movement modes, and no extraordinary attacks. You can't polymorph into a non-existent creature because there's nothing to polymorph into.

(Of course, you could, in theory, stat up such a creature, run those stats by the DM, and then polymorph into the creature... but that would depend on your DM agreeing to admit such a creature into his game.)

wouldn't the DM just make up the stats for the new creature on the fly?

 

[gooeylouie]

Could you polymorph something into a creature that just looks strange but really is an existing monster? For example, could you use alter self to change yourself into a human with two heads or hooves or something? Also, what about the origin story of mustard jelly? A wizard was polymorphing herself into ochre jelly, but something went wrong and she polymorphed into mustard jelly - a new monster. One more thing, the Shapechange spell specifies that you cannot turn into a unique creature. Wouldn't polymorph specify that too if it could not be done?

 

[gooeylouie]

No, because it would be ridiculously abusable. You could simply say "I want to change into a fantastic creature that's humanoid like me, but has wings, 20 points of natural armour, a breath weapon like a blast furnace, and can go ethereal at will", and Polymorph has no built-in dials to prevent any of that.

I think I can make all of that sound reasonable.

Wings: Even if you have to polymorph into something from the monster manual, that still means it is pretty easy to get wings (turning into a bird) and even stay humanoid (you could turn into an urd, aka: winged kobold)

Breath Weapon: The spell says that you do not gain supernatural abilities. While breath weapons are not specified as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like, all the monsters in the manual with breath weapons have these as supernatural (if my research is correct) but even if it was an extraordinary ability, the DM would probably choose how much damage the attack does so he can make sure it isn't too powerful. Not to mention the character doesn't know about damage and hit dice and stuff because they are a medieval wizard, not a player.

Natural Armor: The character, being a spell caster in a medieval european style land, doesn't know about natural armor bonuses. All they know is that thick skin=harder to kill. Because of this, they probably wouldn't be able to specify how much natural armor they gain, they would only be able to say something like "I want very thick skin" or "I want a turtle shell" and the DM would decide how much armor the player gets. Since the DM would decide this, he/she could make sure the armor bonus isn't way too high.

Ethereal: It says in the spell description that polymorph cannot be used to turn into an ethereal creature, so that is not an issue.

 

[Argyle King]

Cause it is. I spent far too much time on CharOp forums during my misspent youth.

Sometimes it surprises me that I remember so many details of so many books. I might not always remember the exact name or page number, but the general info is in my head somewhere. Part of the reason it surprises me is because I haven't looked at the 3rd Edition books very much for a long time. Only recently did I start playing 3rd again.

 

[Greenfield]

Could you polymorph something into a creature that just looks strange but really is an existing monster? For example, could you use alter self to change yourself into a human with two heads or hooves or something?

No, not with Alter Self. You become a "typical" member of that race, with specific characteristics like height, weight, hair color etc. being allowable within the normal range for the race. So unless the race normally has three arms or two heads, Alter Self can't do it.

I'd make the same ruling for Polymorph as well.

One more thing, the Shapechange spell specifies that you cannot turn into a unique creature. Wouldn't polymorph specify that too if it could not be done?

When it speaks of a "Unique" creature, it doesn't mean some new creation. It means you might be able to turn into a Human that looks like Lord Dundersmith (+10 to your Disguise check), but you can't actually *become* Lord Dundersmith, with all of his of his extrordinary physical stats and special abilities. He may have a 25 Strength and a 30 CON, but you're going to end up with 10 or 11s in those, since that's typical of the Human race. Or, on a broader scale, you might be able to turn into an Asgardian, but you can't turn into Thor.

What it *doesn't* mean is that you have no control over appearance and form. You can sculpt features as you choose, choose height and weight, skin tone, hair length and color etc any way you like.

It just has to be within the normal possible range for the race.

 

[gooeylouie]

No, not with Alter Self. You become a "typical" member of that race, with specific characteristics like height, weight, hair color etc. being allowable within the normal range for the race. So unless the race normally has three arms or two heads, Alter Self can't do it.

I'd make the same ruling for Polymorph as well.


When it speaks of a "Unique" creature, it doesn't mean some new creation. It means you might be able to turn into a Human that looks like Lord Dundersmith (+10 to your Disguise check), but you can't actually *become* Lord Dundersmith, with all of his of his extrordinary physical stats and special abilities. He may have a 25 Strength and a 30 CON, but you're going to end up with 10 or 11s in those, since that's typical of the Human race. Or, on a broader scale, you might be able to turn into an Asgardian, but you can't turn into Thor.

What it *doesn't* mean is that you have no control over appearance and form. You can sculpt features as you choose, choose height and weight, skin tone, hair length and color etc any way you like.

It just has to be within the normal possible range for the race.

Does that mean to create an entirely new creature I would have to make up a new spell by studying and spending a lot of gold pieces in a big library? Or is there a spell I am not thinking of that can make some new species?

 

[Argyle King]

Does that mean to create an entirely new creature I would have to make up a new spell by studying and spending a lot of gold pieces in a big library? Or is there a spell I am not thinking of that can make some new species?

There are epic level spells used to create new species and give them life.

The PrC mentioned earlier helps mix and match traits from multiple forms.

You mIght be able to fluff some spells as having physical manifestations as long as your DM is fine with doing so.

Beyond that, I think you'd need to create a new spell; working with your DM to figure out the particulars.

 

[Greenfield]

Does that mean to create an entirely new creature I would have to make up a new spell by studying and spending a lot of gold pieces in a big library? Or is there a spell I am not thinking of that can make some new species?

No, it means the exact opposite. Or not.

There's nothing in the spell description that limits it to creatures from the MM. You just can't use it to gain/fake levels by turning into a specific creature.

The "or not" part of my answer is that you need to have some agreement on what the "new" creature is and can do. This is something best worked out before the game, so you aren't trying to do design and balance issues while everyone else is sitting around waiting.

So, if you want something from an accepted sourcebook, go for it. You want to design exotic creatures with *exactly* the abilities the situation calls for, on the fly? If your DM is any good, he'll cast Dispel BS and shoot you down in flames on the spot.

And if he/she actually lets you get away with it, expect to see opponents doing the same in very short order. It becomes an arms race, and that's one race the DM can always win.