Can Prone Ally be shifted?

[Lord Sessadore]

I don't understand why all terrain would be difficult while prone.

PHB pg 288 has rules for crawling, and they don't say anything about that. I was simply wondering if enemy monsters would take minimal steps to preserve their dignity, like standing up, or if they would crawl towards their enemy.

Unless I misunderstand what people have said, the foes in question (under the influence of 'Come and Get it') would crawl to the fighter, unless obstacles, people, or difficult terrain made the path impossible.

I think Mr. Nightwing was suggesting a house rule that seems to encompass all of the effects of being prone, both those already in the rules and those that aren't explicitly in the rules, but which are common sense. The only case I can see where his suggested ruling doesn't quite work is being prone in actual difficult terrain. Maybe declare it extra-difficult terrain? (ie - 4 squares to move 1 square, instead of 2 squares to move 1 square.)

 

[keterys]

The suggested house rule is 'You move half speed while prone, by crawling' I believe.

At which point you _can_ shift, just at half speed. If the rule is 'You can only crawl while prone' then you either _can't_ shift at all or _can_, depending on how you interpret that statement.

The rules for prone actually allow you to run at full speed, though... they're just missing important information. Hence the need for an update (or house rule).

 

[Skyscraper]

Prone effectively equals lying on the ground. Moving while prone is pretty much crawling. Crawling rules sound fine except that they don't state you move at half speed, just that you are limited to half your speed in total movement. It is not worded in the same way but the end result is the same, so generally i'd allow movement at half speed if i allowed the ally to be moved.

Can you move a prone/crawling ally with a power at all? I guess it depends on the intent of the power being used. If the power allows an ally to sommersault over the enemy or if the power teleports the ally would yield different rulings IMO. If the power simply allows the ally to move tactically in response to your own power, i'd allow him to crawl, effectively moving at half speed.

Sky

 

[Tony Vargas]

The phrasing of crawling - which has always been implied as the way you move when prone - aparently reduces your movement, rather than costing you double movement, so, yes, you could shift. It's not that difficult to visualize a character rolling, crawling or backing away from an enemy, so I don't see a big problem with it.

I don't know why being prone and standing up became such profoundly difficult concepts in D&D. Wouldn't it have been simpler if standing up just cost a square of movement? You could stand from prone as part of a move and still move (one less square), but you'd provoke, or you could stand by 'shfiting' one less square and not provoke. Lots of systems use a 'movement cost' for non-movement actions. ::shrug::

 

[Aservan]

I'll be honest. Rolling, twisting, and jack-knifing from prone are not that hard. When you are fighting for your life you can move pretty fast. Your body cuts loose on the stops.

People who think being prone is a big deal have not been in a lot of fights are just not being that imaginative. Fighting is about leverage more then anything. As a former wrestler there are a lot of moves that specifically involve going to the ground in order to use the ground itself to get better leverage. Usually you take your enemy with you of course. On your back you have four points of attack rather then three as you don't need one foot or hand on the ground. It is encumbering mostly because your back is a lousy means of movement (which is not the same as saying you can't use just your back to move - You can).

Prone is one of those things that people not trained in combat assume is a big disadvantage. It can be a disadvantage for sure but it should be a relatively weak one. 4th has this correct. Prone is more dramatic then actually crippling. Having your limbs grabbed is much worse.

 

[keterys]

Would you argue that you can move as quickly while prone as you do while on your feet? Do you move as quickly while prone as you do while running through a forest, for instance?

Now, does it matter if you're rolling around on cobblestones instead of a mat? How about on a cavern floor with lots of painful ridges, stones sticking up, etc?

I'm more in favor of 4E prone than 3E - but as far as I can tell the crawl mechanics are designed as they are to make a simpler (mathematically in terms people understand most easily) method of 'you move at half speed while prone'.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I think Mr. Nightwing was suggesting a house rule that seems to encompass all of the effects of being prone, both those already in the rules and those that aren't explicitly in the rules, but which are common sense. The only case I can see where his suggested ruling doesn't quite work is being prone in actual difficult terrain. Maybe declare it extra-difficult terrain? (ie - 4 squares to move 1 square, instead of 2 squares to move 1 square.)

Yes, maybe I should have made my intent more clear. I don't think you need an extra rule for difficult terrain though, since it's usually no more difficult to crawl along ice/through loose rock etc.. than to walk.