Can Restoration fix a botched Contact Other Plane?

[Felix]

Defiler:

Yeah, I got that part, what with the other planes becoming redundant, but what is the mechanical reason for not being able to Take 10. What you've said is a perfectly good reason, but the only rule supporting that is Rule 0. And that would make this thread shift forums, eh? Heh.

So yeah, mechanical-wise, there isn't anything stopping a Take 10, is there? Hyp?

 

[Praeden]

And to my mind, greater restoration can fix the problem just fine.

I think the argument of Heal fixing it is more convincing, but probably one or the other should fix it, yes.

In fact, dispel magic can as well.

Specifically - the attribute decrease is a magical effect from a spell that has a duration. It's specifically listed as a duration. Therefore it's an ongoing magical effect. Therefore it can be dispelled. Although greater restoration cannot get rid of the "you can no longer cast arcane spells". Dispel magic will.

It has a duration, but whether it's a magical effect is less clear. All we know for certain is that it is a side-effect of the spell-casting, as can be seen from this SRD quote:

'Contact with minds far removed from your home plane increases the probability that you will incur a decrease to Intelligence and Charisma'

I would interpret that as being due to mental trauma. Think what happens when you make contact with the mind of an allip, for instance. This is just a nastier version.

My suggestion would be to use a lower level spell (lesser planar binding) and summon an imp.

*snip*

Or send your familiar to other planes to ask questions (buffed with stuff so he's less likely to fail). And if he fails, cast the spell again and send him.

After all - he can't cast spells anyway, and his int is likely to be only about 9 or 10 anyway, so he loses very little.

The imp idea is good. The familiar idea is brilliant. The first time the familiar fails the Int check, its Int drops to 8 (Cha is usually lower anyway), which reduces the chance of making further checks. But this doesn't stop the wizard from casting the spell over and over, and any further failures will have no effect on the familiar. And the responses will come back in a language that the familiar understands.

Nope, can't find any flaws with this one.

 

[Praeden]

Defiler:
So yeah, mechanical-wise, there isn't anything stopping a Take 10, is there? Hyp?

Okay, fair point.

Part of the problem I have with Take 10 is that 'threats or distractions' are not very well defined. You have to concentrate to maintain the spell - does that count as a distraction? And if I'm interpreting the spell description correctly, the very process of contacting these distant minds is stressful, so much so that it can mentally traumatise you. Does that count as a distraction? Or even a threat? My gut response is yes, but I'm open to other arguments.

 

[Felix]

...the very process of contacting these distant minds is stressful, so much so that it can mentally traumatise you. Does that count as a distraction?

My DM and I had a conversation about this the other day. The problem I have with this is that basically the spell is the distraction from concentrating on the spell, and that's silly sounding. I think it makes much more sense to house rule to cannot Take 10 while making this check, but without a house rule, you're left with an automatic connection to Bahamut and Vecna. Heh. You can pester the deity of Death without fear of Int/Cha decrease!

Casts spell...
[Question 1] Vecna, are you a jerk?

YES

[Question 2] Vecna, do you like crepes?

NO

[Question 3] Vecna, do you plan on maximizing your total future death potential by avioding total wipeout of life?

MAYBE

[Question 4] Vecna, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

GO AWAY

[Question 5] Vecna...

GET OUT OF MY MIND!!!

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think the argument of Heal fixing it is more convincing, but probably one or the other should fix it, yes.

It has a duration, but whether it's a magical effect is less clear. All we know for certain is that it is a side-effect of the spell-casting, as can be seen from this SRD quote:

'Contact with minds far removed from your home plane increases the probability that you will incur a decrease to Intelligence and Charisma'

I would interpret that as being due to mental trauma. Think what happens when you make contact with the mind of an allip, for instance. This is just a nastier version.

So it'd be ability drain or damage then (the allip mind-contact one is mere ability damage). So it can be healed just fine.

See - either it's magical, or it's healable. It can't be nonmagical AND unhealable. And what about the loss of spellcasting? That's totally seperate from the attribute loss - because it's possible that someone with an int of 8 could use a magic item to bump it back up again.

The imp idea is good. The familiar idea is brilliant. The first time the familiar fails the Int check, its Int drops to 8 (Cha is usually lower anyway), which reduces the chance of making further checks. But this doesn't stop the wizard from casting the spell over and over, and any further failures will have no effect on the familiar. And the responses will come back in a language that the familiar understands.

Nope, can't find any flaws with this one.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Take 10 makes this spell stupidly easy. I concede the rules do not make it clear that you cannot Take 10, but I think I will use common sense or my version of the same...

A PC Wizard who first learns this spell is likely to have a +5 Int check mod at the minimum. So a 5% failure chance makes sense. Get a bigger stat booster if you want 100%.

My 11th level Wizard has a +8 Int check mod. If I actually reach 20th level, it likely I will have a +14 or +15 check mod. Remember there are items like Luckstones that increase ability checks. The chart makes sense in the context of likely Int checks available for 9th through 20th characters. It makes no sense if Take 10 is allowed.

 

[Squire James]

[Question 5] Vecna...

BLUE, AND I'M CASTING DISCERN LOCATION, TARGETING YOU! WILL YOU NOW SHUT UP, OR SHALL I PROCEED WITH A GATE, ALSO TARGETED ON YOU?!

 

[Saeviomagy]

With all the boosters you get that apply, you should be able to reliably get lesser deities on the line anyway. Heroism, fox's cunning and guidance give you a +5 to the roll.

 

[Felix]

[pedantry]

...A PC Wizard who first learns this spell is likely to have a +5 Int check mod at the minimum...

Actually, because it's a 5th level spell, the minimum INT is 15, and therefore the minimum Take 10 is going to be a 12.

[/pedantry]

Yeah, the chart doesn't really make sense with Take 10. Still RAW though. Heh.

BLUE, AND I'M CASTING DISCERN LOCATION, TARGETING YOU! WILL YOU NOW SHUT UP, OR SHALL I PROCEED WITH A GATE, ALSO TARGETED ON YOU?!

See, that's more than 5 words, which Contact Other Plane doesn't allow.

 

[Diirk]

You all missed the obvious Even if you allow take 10, the entries in the table below DC 12 are necessary for sorcerors, who (especially with point buy) are quite possibly casting the spell with a negative int mod.