Can Restoration fix a botched Contact Other Plane?

[Hypersmurf]

Except that it then calls out the time that your int and wis drop and lack of spellcasting as a 'duration'.

That's not the duration of the spell, though.

If I have a Conjuration spell of instantaneous duration, that creates a lit torch that burns for a duration of 1 hour (as described in the Vision and Light chapter of the PHB), that one hour - despite being a duration - is not the duration of the spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

That's not the duration of the spell, though.

If I have a Conjuration spell of instantaneous duration, that creates a lit torch that burns for a duration of 1 hour (as described in the Vision and Light chapter of the PHB), that one hour - despite being a duration - is not the duration of the spell.

-Hyp.

If the torch actually disappeared at the end of that hour, then I'd say the stat block of the spell was incorrect. It's quite clear that there is still magic operating after the spell expires...

In actual fact, I'd really like to see everything in D&D seperated out into magical and nonmagical, and have dispel work on all things magical (including energy drain).

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the torch actually disappeared at the end of that hour, then I'd say the stat block of the spell was incorrect. It's quite clear that there is still magic operating after the spell expires...

Like the Fly spell, for instance?

Dispel Magic can't be used to cause someone to plummet. Nor Greater Dispelling, nor even Mordenkainen's Disjunction. You need an AMF.

If you dispel the Fly, they descend gently. And since the spell has ended, there's nothing left to dispel...

-Hyp.

 

[Jalkain]

Which somehow prevents it being an effect of the spell with a duration that isn't instantaneous?

Dispel Magic causes a spell to act as if its duration had expired. Contact Other Plane's duration is 'Concentration'. When you stop concentrating, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains.

If you cast Dispel Magic, therefore, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains. Just as if the duration had expired.

-Hyp.

Got to agree with Hypersmurf here. There are several spells whose non-magical effects last beyond the spell duration. Enervation is one, and I don't see why it should be treated differently just because negative levels are defined elsewhere.

Some of the confusion seems to be caused by the word 'duration' appearing in the text. The spell duration is given in the stat block. If the spell goes wrong, the caster suffers mental trauma, the duration of which is given in the text. However, there is nothing to suggest that this now becomes the spell duration, nor that this trauma is a magical effect. In fact, the text suggests it occurs as a direct result of contacting powerful minds who resent your intrusion.

Furthermore, the only other spell which has a similar effect, Feeblemind, has an instantaneous duration, meaning that the Int decrease in this case is definitely non-dispellable. So Hypersmurf's reasoning seems the more consistent interpretation.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Got to agree with Hypersmurf here. There are several spells whose non-magical effects last beyond the spell duration. Enervation is one, and I don't see why it should be treated differently just because negative levels are defined elsewhere.

Some of the confusion seems to be caused by the word 'duration' appearing in the text. The spell duration is given in the stat block. If the spell goes wrong, the caster suffers mental trauma, the duration of which is given in the text. However, there is nothing to suggest that this now becomes the spell duration, nor that this trauma is a magical effect. In fact, the text suggests it occurs as a direct result of contacting powerful minds who resent your intrusion.

Unfortunately no details of that drop are given. There are no mechanics for it. You just suddenly get int 8 and cha 8, and become unable to cast spells for a stated duration.

Whether it's magical, or natural, or requires specific spells to remove is totally untouched. Furthermore what school it is is totally untouched. Does break enchantment work on it? Or is a divination spell truly capable of changing mental stats?

Furthermore, the only other spell which has a similar effect, Feeblemind, has an instantaneous duration, meaning that the Int decrease in this case is definitely non-dispellable. So Hypersmurf's reasoning seems the more consistent interpretation.

IF the spell did reference the effects of feeblemind, then it would actually have an 'out'.

As is, it technically doesn't. Which basically restricts casting it to "only people who can automatically succeed at the DC". Because frankly the penalties are far too serious to risk.

Given that clerics are already enjoying 100% accurate yes-or-no answers from omnipotent gods, with no chance of failure or nasty stuff, I'd say that giving a wizard an "out" is hardly a terrible thing.

 

[Jalkain]

Unfortunately no details of that drop are given. There are no mechanics for it. You just suddenly get int 8 and cha 8, and become unable to cast spells for a stated duration.

Whether it's magical, or natural, or requires specific spells to remove is totally untouched. Furthermore what school it is is totally untouched. Does break enchantment work on it? Or is a divination spell truly capable of changing mental stats?
.

No question about it. It's a gap in the rules, and we're here to sort the problem out!

IF the spell did reference the effects of feeblemind, then it would actually have an 'out'.

As is, it technically doesn't. Which basically restricts casting it to "only people who can automatically succeed at the DC". Because frankly the penalties are far too serious to risk.
.

Again, we are in total agreement.

Given that clerics are already enjoying 100% accurate yes-or-no answers from omnipotent gods, with no chance of failure or nasty stuff, I'd say that giving a wizard an "out" is hardly a terrible thing.

There has to be some way out, as you say. It's only a botched 5th level Divination spell after all! I was merely expressing the opinion that Heal and/or Greater Restoration are probably more appropriate than Dispel Magic for fixing the problem. It's not as if the wizard will actually be able to cast Dispel Magic himself after all, so he'll just have to make sure he has some clerical support.

Admittedly, under certain circumstances the Dispel Magic option might make life easier - if the wizard used a Contingency spell or a Ring of Spell Storing to fix himself in the event of a bad roll. Though using the Ring of Spell Storing would only give a caster level of 5. Which brings us to the question - what would be the DC to dispel the effect? Presumably the same as the original failed ability check, since the spell itself would have ended.

Hmmm... I'm thinking that if you want to give the wizard a fair deal, then using Heal might be better. You've really got no guarantee that Dispel Magic will work.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hmmm... I'm thinking that if you want to give the wizard a fair deal, then using Heal might be better. You've really got no guarantee that Dispel Magic will work.

Well, my money would either be on
a) It's exactly like feeblemind, and requires heal, miracle, wish or limited wish.
b) It's dispellable, and therefore dispel, greater dispel, greater restoration, restoration and lesser restoration work. Note that the applicable part of the restoration chain is that it dispels a magical effect. If it works, then dispel magic must also.

The difference is that A) requires a 6th level spell to fix the problems of a 5th level spell, while B) makes the problem much more palatable.

 

[Munktar]

Then Another small question, what if my Int dropped to 8 but I have a headband +6 Int, Will it be 14, so i will be able to cast spells?

 

[DumbPaladin]

Yeah, definitely ... but you won't be able to cast Contact Other Plane again, because it's higher than 4th level.