Can Restoration fix a botched Contact Other Plane?

[Praeden]

My DM and I had a conversation about this the other day. The problem I have with this is that basically the spell is the distraction from concentrating on the spell, and that's silly sounding.

That was my immediate reaction as well; it did seem silly, in a recursive kind of way... But in fact we can pretty much forget about the spell itself. Here's my take:

Thing that we are trying to avoid: Int/Cha loss due to mental trauma
Cause of distraction (reason we can't take 10): Being in the presence of godly minds is stressful

Now, the two things do still seems related, but both are merely by-products of the spell. We are essentially victims of a mental attack here. The fact that we initiated the contact is not the issue (again, think about what happens if you cast Detect Thoughts on an Allip).

It seems to me that you could conceivably have a psionic monster or somesuch who drained Int, and required you to make an Int ability check to avoid it (I know saving throws are normally used here, but this is a hypothetical example). When attacked by such a monster, you clearly could not take 10 to help you avoid the Int drain, and it would indeed be the distraction/threat of the mental attack itself which prevented such action.

My feeling is that Contact Other Plane puts you in a similar situation. Rereading the spell description, it's even possible that this mental trauma is a direct action of the resentful deity (this is supported by the fact that the problem occurs as soon as you ask your first question). But in any case, it seems reasonable to me that any telepathic contact which could result in such drastic loss of mental faculties must be intrinsically stressful. So I don't think this can be considered a Take 10 situation.

I think it makes much more sense to house rule to cannot Take 10 while making this check, but without a house rule, you're left with an automatic connection to Bahamut and Vecna. Heh. You can pester the deity of Death without fear of Int/Cha decrease!

Actually, this sounds so funny I almost regret what I've written!

 

[Praeden]

So it'd be ability drain or damage then (the allip mind-contact one is mere ability damage). So it can be healed just fine.

See - either it's magical, or it's healable. It can't be nonmagical AND unhealable. And what about the loss of spellcasting? That's totally seperate from the attribute loss - because it's possible that someone with an int of 8 could use a magic item to bump it back up again.

Yes, I agree. I've said as much in the text that you quoted. Either Greater Restoration or Heal should work, with my personal preference being Heal.

As for the loss of spellcasting - not sure. I'm all for letting Heal fix that at the same time.

You know what's annoying? None of this stuff has changed since 1st Ed. Heal was basically the only mid-level spell that fixed Feeblemind back then too, and I think that the Contact Higher Plane (as it was known then) was given that penalty to make it a last resort only spell, since nothing was listed as fixing it (presumably a Wish was needed). I'm not sure Greater Restoration even existed back then, as I'm citing this from memory. It's just that I remember this problem coming up 20 years ago, and the damn spell description still reads virtually the same!

 

[Dakkareth]

I hit upon that problem a few weeks ago and came to the same conclusion. The spells deals a kind of 'damage' that doesn't even exist within the rules. There's no condition named 'decrease' or anything. Fortunately greater restoration has that 'remove anything' phrase and my PbP DM Rayex ruled, that a normal restoration works, too. I'm looking forward to make use of that

 

[Kae'Yoss]

And to my mind, greater restoration can fix the problem just fine. In fact, dispel magic can as well.

I think the trauma is not due to the spell, but only triggered by the spell. The "caster" is someone else. Probably someone with a caster level of 200+ for this purpose

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think the trauma is not due to the spell, but only triggered by the spell. The "caster" is someone else. Probably someone with a caster level of 200+ for this purpose

An effect from the spell has a duration that is not instantaneous. That's really all you need to know. It's magic, it's affecting you, it's caused by a spell.

In fact, it should technically be an automatic dispel if you manage (somehow) to cast the dispel yourself, because the effect is coming from one of your own spells...

If it really bothers you, then consider the fact that the god's power is being channeled from another plane through a tiny conduit that is capable of carrying only single-word answers from the deity to the caster.

Similarly a god's power on a plane is usually restricted to the power of his clerics or avatars - I doubt it's easy for a god to just blast people.

If the god really wants to come over and smite you he can, but it's not as simple as just firing stuff back through the spell.

Oh, and if you really want to bug a deity, use sending instead. No muss, no fuss.

 

[Sejs]

See, that's more than 5 words, which Contact Other Plane doesn't allow.

KEEP IT UP, WISE GUY.

KNOCK IT OFF. FINAL WARNING.

ALRIGHT, YOU ASKED FOR IT.

*sigh* I NEED AN UNLISTED NUMBER.

 

[Hypersmurf]

An effect from the spell has a duration that is not instantaneous. That's really all you need to know. It's magic, it's affecting you, it's caused by a spell.

[frown]

So do you allow a Dispel Magic to remove the negative levels from Enervation or Energy Drain?

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

[frown]

So do you allow a Dispel Magic to remove the negative levels from Enervation or Energy Drain?

-Hyp.

Oooh, tricky one.

In this case, no - mainly because a negative level is something that's defined elsewhere.

You get given a negative level, and then by the good graces of the spell, it doesn't last as long as the usual ones (or in the case of energy drain, it does).

Now - if there were a condition that existed that was "your intelligence and charisma drop to 8, and you cannot cast spells. This status is instantaneous and irreversable", and then contact other plane said "you get status X. In 4 weeks it goes away", then I would not expect it to be dispellable. However I would also expect it to be addressed in other regions of the rules - certain spells might cure it etc etc.

Hell - if the spell said "the subject is affected as with a feeblemind (no save), although his scores remain at 8, and the condition goes away in 4 weeks", that'd be fine. No dispelling etc etc. Cured only by heal, limited wish, wish or miracle etc etc.

I really wish D&D had some sort of metamagic theory to hold all this stuff together...

 

[Hypersmurf]

In this case, no - mainly because a negative level is something that's defined elsewhere.

Which somehow prevents it being an effect of the spell with a duration that isn't instantaneous?

Dispel Magic causes a spell to act as if its duration had expired. Contact Other Plane's duration is 'Concentration'. When you stop concentrating, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains.

If you cast Dispel Magic, therefore, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains. Just as if the duration had expired.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Dispel Magic causes a spell to act as if its duration had expired. Contact Other Plane's duration is 'Concentration'. When you stop concentrating, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains.

Except that it then calls out the time that your int and wis drop and lack of spellcasting as a 'duration'.

Am I right in thinking that text trumps statblock?

If you cast Dispel Magic, therefore, the spell ends... but the Int decrease etc remains. Just as if the duration had expired.

-Hyp.