Can someone explain what "1st ed feel" is?

I will step back a bit - its not that I mind tactical play when its appropriate for the character. If the character in question is a grizzled veteran of many campaigns, then its perfectly appropriate to play him in a careful, cautious, tactical manner. However, if he's a big friendly guy without much up top but has a good heart and a mean weapon arm, coming up wiht brilliant tactics or solving complicated logic puzzles is out of character and inappropriate.

And I do cater to my players, because while I like lots of action I'm more than willing to explore whatever is appropriate. Want tactical combat challenges? Make your character said grizzled veteran and you'll get your chance. However, if you want to explore unknown reaches, make an explorer, etc. The players drive the campaign.

I really don't like GNS, because its so bogged down in terminology that it isn't useful. That and most players use all three most of the time. I prefer Robin Laws' seven types of roleplayers - Power Gamer, Buttkicker, Storyteller, Method Actor, Specialist, Tactician, and Casual Gamer. While most of us fall in more than one category I find it more descriptive. I'm firmly in the Method Actor camp. When I make a character my main interest is 'will they be interesting to role-play'. There's a bit of tactician and Storyteller in me, as well as Casual Gamer.

And like I said, I'm not saying one way is wrong and another is right - its that some people like different styles. Its important to note that, otherwise you could end up with half the group playing one game and the other half playing another. And that rarely leads to somewhere good.
 

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maddman75 said:
I really don't like GNS, because its so bogged down in terminology that it isn't useful. That and most players use all three most of the time. I prefer Robin Laws' seven types of roleplayers - Power Gamer, Buttkicker, Storyteller, Method Actor, Specialist, Tactician, and Casual Gamer. While most of us fall in more than one category I find it more descriptive. I'm firmly in the Method Actor camp. When I make a character my main interest is 'will they be interesting to role-play'. There's a bit of tactician and Storyteller in me, as well as Casual Gamer.

GNS discussion usually ends up reading like a bunch of folks chatting that are trying to impress themselves and each other from what I've seen of it.

I like the Robin Law's seven types of role players.

I would be as a player in order: Tactician, Powergamer, Buttkicker - which very much fits my wargaming background. :cool: I dislike casual, specialist & method

If a player arrays in army in game with a flank exposed and fails to plan contigency or have reserves, as DM I'll happily hit that flank. Couldn't care less if he has a 25 in intelligence and 25 wisdom and is ultra high level. That sort of stupid play gets crucified without mercy.
 

The problem I have with Robin Laws' seven types of players is that I feel the definitions are too narrow and, specifically, don't feel that any of the labels describes me particularly well -- I suppose the closest is probably "casual gamer," but unlike Laws' description of the Casual Gamer I'm not "uncomfortable taking center stage" and have no particular desire to "remain in the background," I just think that rpgs are primarily a social activity and that the interaction and interpersonal dynamic of the people at the table is (or at least should be) more important than either the rules or the story. That's why I like the GNS breakdown better because the way Gamism is defined in Ron Edwards' "Gamism -- Step On Up" essay seems to match my interests and desires much better, in fact almost perfectly.
 

I just came across this site the other day and registered 30 minutes ago.Needless to say thats to long for me not to put my two cents in. Started in 82 with infamous red boxed set(loved it), and soon graduated to 1e. 1st ed feel can summed up as, meet in tavern, drink ale:D(my favorite part), go to dungeon, smash in doors(much fun),slay many,many beasts(much more fun), nearly die(not much fun), take much gold(back to more fun),go back to tavern, drink much more ale(much, much, much more fun;)),have to leave town(because of much more ale), go to next town, repeat. Ahhh the good ole days.


NOTHING beats a good old fashion dungeon crawl.
 

T. Foster said:
I'd never really thought of it at the time, but he and I obviously had a completely different set of 'kicks' (or, if you prefer, 'creative agenda') -- it's a wonder we were able to game together (and both have so much fun) for 12 years when we were constantly trying to steer the game in opposite directions...

You know, I was just thinking today that my players often seem to be playing totaly seperate games from each other. One's playing Sim Spaceship with tactical combat, one's playing Mutants and Masterminds meets Star Trek, one's playing Let's Make a Deal, and the last is playing "Uhhhh, is my turn to hit him yet?"

I'm running a combination Firefly, Farscape, and Star*Drive wondering what my player's and takeing.
 

Virel said:
GNS discussion usually ends up reading like a bunch of folks chatting that are trying to impress themselves and each other from what I've seen of it.

That's Sociologists for you. :) (My mother's a sociologist, I'm an academic lawyer - she's usually very unimpressed by my writing & presentations because I try to make things as clear & easily comprehensible as possible, whereas Sociology seems to value obfuscation for its own sake).

I do think the Gamist vs Simulationist distinction is a useful one to bear in mind, and for me helps clarify a lot of what I want from my games. Narrativism in Forgespeak seems horribly over-defined (and also implicitly 'the best' style) so I find is not much use in a 'strict' or accurate GNS model, though it can be somewhat useful to distinguish Sim-realism "This is what my PC would do (if they were a real person)" from Nar-drama "This is what it would be cool if my PC did (if they were a character in a book)" and Gamist-success - "This is what my PC should do (to win/overcome the challenge)".

I guess I want excitement and drama (Nar) in a plausible world (Sim) and the thrill of players overcoming challenges through their own efforts (Gamism).
 

my version of 1e feeling:

-I read something like a module or a campaign setting and it creates cool pictures in me brain.
-It is so interesting that I actually re-read it.
-I dont fall asleep when reading through it
-There is actually some humour in the books/modules/whatever
-The art is inspiring
-When the story/plot is more important than the stat-blocks
-The ratio between the two is not 30:70 but more like 90:10
-I read the back cover text and I just HAVE to have that book
-You dont have to be a philosopher to understand a villains background
-You dont spend 2 hours to create just one NPC
-Players try things that are not written in a rulebook...and it still works
-DMs dont have to look in a rulebook every 5 minutes
-You do not really need miniatures for combat..but they are cool to have anyway
-What's a battlemat?
-You dont need CR to understand how powerfull something is
-Funny dungeon crawls with odd monsters in odd locations
-Diplomacy is good for....uhm..whats diplomacy again?...Chaaaarge!

I think I stop now :)
 

T. Foster said:
...unlike Laws' description of the Casual Gamer I'm not "uncomfortable taking center stage" and have no particular desire to "remain in the background," I just think that rpgs are primarily a social activity and that the interaction and interpersonal dynamic of the people at the table is (or at least should be) more important than either the rules or the story.

Strangely, you sound a lot like me, and what I found myself identifying with. I myself according to Laws would be more a combination of Casual Gamer First, Storyteller second, whereas you would be closer, though not a perfect fit, to Casual Gamer / Method Actor. You enjoy the social experience more than advancement, or kicking butt, and you get your "emotional kick" from gaming just by the act of gaming itself. At least, that's what I get from your posts.

In truth, Robin Laws should be read less for the "ironclad description" and more for the "emotional kick" that is the goal of each gamer. It's something good GM's do all the time, often without realizing it - working to give each player what they want in the context of the overall game. It's why most PRG sessions in the world look so similar -- a little roleplay, a little advancement, a little butt-kicking. It satisfies most of the people most of the time.
 


Henry said:
In truth, Robin Laws should be read less for the "ironclad description" and more for the "emotional kick" that is the goal of each gamer. It's something good GM's do all the time, often without realizing it - working to give each player what they want in the context of the overall game. It's why most PRG sessions in the world look so similar -- a little roleplay, a little advancement, a little butt-kicking. It satisfies most of the people most of the time.

That's what I get from Robin's categories myself. The Buttkicker wants to smash bad guys. The method actor wants to play his character. The Specialist wants to do 'his thing' - which probably is something related to ninjas. You have to figure out what your players get off on.
 

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