Can someone explain?
- Thread starter whatisitgoodfor
- Start date
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Voadam said:Shard,
Do you mean like HPs and SR?The only other thing I can think of that would help them out would be generic energy resistances.
Well energy resistances would be a start. But there is nothing stopping them from giving dragons a special ability immune to x,y,z effects. Takes 1/2 damage from elemental damage, takes 1/2 damage from force effects etc. More hp wouldn't be bad, especially considering the other mods I would give a dragon. Since I like to view them more like tanks than cats, I would prefer one relatively inacurate attack a round doing obscene amounts of damage like at great wyrm level 5d20+100. If you get hit your almost always dead. Also personally I'd prefer if they weren't naturally sorcerers but they advanced not only by age but by character class, prefered class sorcerer. That way there are non-magical dragons, which is something I like. And I'd also make the last stage of dragon great wyrm more like a variety pack of prestige classes which great wyrm prestige class the dragon qualified for would be dependent on which classes they advanced in.
orbitalfreak
Explorer
Hey, guys, I just got an e-mail response from the Sage about this. I sent him this after first reading this topic. His responses in bold.
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Dear Sage:
It is currently being debated on the ENWorld message boards why a dragon recieves good reflex save progression. Some are arguing that dragons, being enormous creatures, should have a poor Ref save progression, or at least some sort of penalty to Ref saves based on size (similar to the Size AC penalty).
Others say that dragons, being creatures of awesome might, should get the good saves. Reasons include a "sixth sense" to avoid danger, covering itself with its wings, and having its scales provide Cover to it. Also, it has been suggested that it was from a game mechanics point-of-view that this was done, making dragons the toughest creatures in the game.
Could you please clarify this, and if Dragons don't have good Ref saves, why was it not included in the MM errata.
Dragons recieve good Reflex saves because we wanted them to be the most challenging encounter possible.
However, there should be a penalty for size. Use the AC charts for the correct values. This applies to all creatures, not just dragons. Change all the saves listed in the MM to reflect this correction. It affects PC's as well (check the PH errata; it was updated yesterday).
I can't believe that R&D missed this one; I'll let them know immediately.
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Well, that should settle the debate.
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Dear Sage:
It is currently being debated on the ENWorld message boards why a dragon recieves good reflex save progression. Some are arguing that dragons, being enormous creatures, should have a poor Ref save progression, or at least some sort of penalty to Ref saves based on size (similar to the Size AC penalty).
Others say that dragons, being creatures of awesome might, should get the good saves. Reasons include a "sixth sense" to avoid danger, covering itself with its wings, and having its scales provide Cover to it. Also, it has been suggested that it was from a game mechanics point-of-view that this was done, making dragons the toughest creatures in the game.
Could you please clarify this, and if Dragons don't have good Ref saves, why was it not included in the MM errata.
Dragons recieve good Reflex saves because we wanted them to be the most challenging encounter possible.
However, there should be a penalty for size. Use the AC charts for the correct values. This applies to all creatures, not just dragons. Change all the saves listed in the MM to reflect this correction. It affects PC's as well (check the PH errata; it was updated yesterday).
I can't believe that R&D missed this one; I'll let them know immediately.
-------------------------------------------------------
Well, that should settle the debate.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
orbitalfreak said:
/me makes a DC 15 Wisdom check (1d20-2).
DWARF
First Post
That's actually what I was going to suggest. Reading through, I figured applying size benefits/detriments based on size was one answer.
But then i thought of a problem with that. What abour reflex saves for falling? Or grabbing something through the air? Should the fact that a dragon has a huge claw make it more difficult for it to grab a ledge when it's pushed off the edge of a cliff? Some say "that doesn't matter, it can fly anyways".
My reply to that would be that what happens to small or smaller creatures? Do they get bonuses to reflex saves since they are small? Does a gnome somehow become better at grabbing a handhold on a cliff edge because he has shorter arms than a human?
As yoda might say, "making sense, this is not..."
But then i thought of a problem with that. What abour reflex saves for falling? Or grabbing something through the air? Should the fact that a dragon has a huge claw make it more difficult for it to grab a ledge when it's pushed off the edge of a cliff? Some say "that doesn't matter, it can fly anyways".
My reply to that would be that what happens to small or smaller creatures? Do they get bonuses to reflex saves since they are small? Does a gnome somehow become better at grabbing a handhold on a cliff edge because he has shorter arms than a human?
As yoda might say, "making sense, this is not..."
whatisitgoodfor
First Post
Save for falling is a Tumble Check
Catching something in the air is a Dex check
It isn't more difficult for a dragon to catch a ledge to keep from falling off a cliff: it's more difficult for a dragon to grab a ledge that's strong enough.
WOO HOO!!!!
Finally a response from the Sage that I actually like and can accept.
My Fairy Rogue is really gonna kick ass now.
Catching something in the air is a Dex check
It isn't more difficult for a dragon to catch a ledge to keep from falling off a cliff: it's more difficult for a dragon to grab a ledge that's strong enough.
WOO HOO!!!!
Finally a response from the Sage that I actually like and can accept.
My Fairy Rogue is really gonna kick ass now.
orbitalfreak
Explorer
Just for clarification with regards to the "Sage Advice" that I'd posted earlier: It was an April Fools' joke. I've never even e-mailed the Sage about anything.
Hope this didn't cause any undue chaos (though some chaos is fine
)
Hope this didn't cause any undue chaos (though some chaos is fine
)
