Can this be right?

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

This is this Deft Opportunist feat? What does it do? Where is it from?

- Kemrain the... Intrigued.

We're discussing the nature of the Karmic Strike feat, not the deft opportunist one... though this fighter took both. Deft Opportunist allows a bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity.


Y'all - apologies, but I think I've answered my own question in an affirmative way

Karmic Strike details are that the attack made on you must be a melee attack (or melee touch attack)...


The SRD clearly indicates (though it doesn't explicitly state it) that a full attack action is a series of attacks.

See footnote 7, actions in combat and the "full attack action" below... in several places it talks of 'multiple attacks' requiring the full round action to do, but in no way does stop the Karmic Strikes 'melee attack' ability.


So the combo stands in the club of "Thorn in GM's Side' legitimately - at least in my opinion

 

[James McMurray]

So if someone makes several trip attempts and grapple attempts all within a single full attack you only get one AoO because they all occured withint the same full round action? I don't think so.

I think the combo is fine as written. Remember it requires you to actually get hit in order to fire it off. Generally getting beaten on is a bad tactic.

 

[James McMurray]

So if someone makes several trip attempts and grapple attempts all within a single full attack you only get one AoO because they all occured withint the same full round action? I don't think so.

I think the combo is fine as written. Remember it requires you to actually get hit in order to fire it off. Generally getting beaten on is a bad tactic.

 

[Pax]

Unless you're an epic-level dwarf by the name of Kray Thunderfist, and you have lots of Pain Mastery ... hehehe. ^_^ "My pain only makes it easier for me to hurt you!" hehehe.

 

[Chasmodai]

Does using a half-ogre with Improved Trip, Disarm, Unarmed Strike, and Grapple also get me into this club?

Sure it does!

In regards to Defensive Strike - where is that?

It's from Oriental Adventures, where Karmic Strike originally came from.

Remember it requires you to actually get hit in order to fire it off.

Not if you have Defensive Strike.

... and you have lots of Pain Mastery...

I prefer Involuntary Rage over Pain Mastery and Roll With It over anything else. DR 2/- is simply unbeatable!!

 

[Felix]

You've 9 Feats. So compare yourself to a Human fighter wielding a greatsword at 12th level.

1st HD: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
Human: Improved Toughness
Fighter 1: Dodge
Fighter 2: Power Attack
3rd HD: Whatever
Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization: Greatsword
6th HD: Whatever
Fighter 6: Whatever
Fighter 8: Improved Critical: Greatsword
9th HD: Overpowering Critical (+4 to confirm threats)
Fighter 10: Whatever
12th HD: Greater Weapon Focus: Greatsword
Fighter 12: Greater Weapon Spec: Greatsword

This guy will have a +14/+9/+4 to hit you on your round, before you consider his STR bonus, or how much he Power Attacks. On a hit, he will do 2d6+4 damage, plus STR and a half. He will have 12 more hp than you do due to Improved Toughness. He will crit 20% of the time, and then do 4d6+8 damage. His AC will better your non-Expertised/non-karmic striked AC by 1.

Meanwhile you will do 1d6 damage to him... 6+STR is your max damage. 6+STR is his minimum damage.

You will attack him 6 times at most in a round... 3 from your BAB, and 3 if he hits every time. So if you hit each time he will take 6d6 points of damage. But that's only if he hits 3 times, and if he does, you will be taking 6d6+12 points of damage...

See where this is going?

You can only get off 6 attacks if you:
A) Lower your AC through Karmic Strike (I assume the penalties to AC are cumulative?)
B) Lower your to-hit through Combat Expertise to shore up your AC

So, if you take option A, a good fighter will notice this. On the second and third rounds of fighting he will Power Attack, getting him 2 more damage per 1 to-hit given up. Power Attack is efficient when fighting low-AC monsters. Which is what you turn yourself into by choosing option A.

If you take option B, you will reduce your chances of hitting him (His AC isn't going anywhere), and you might not even do 1d6 point of damage!

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Yes, what you have is a fun little combo that ties a whole slew of feats in together with the spiked chain, which is a novelty weapon. But it is a sub-standard weapon, and while it lets you do neat tricks with it, the feat input necessary to make it combat-viable renders it underpowered. This fighter has 9 feats to his credit, as does yours. He is built for combat, but then, isn't every class supposed to be balanced against a fighter of equal level?

Your feat selection turns you into a less-than-effective one-trick-pony, though it is terribly flavorful.

Sorry.

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PS, I read your other thread Tilla the Hun, and noticed that you called your DM a Rules Lawyer. I heretofore issue an injunction against you ever calling him a rules lawyer again; I am one and a certain degree of knowledge of the rules is expected before you get your degree in Rules Lawyering. He doens't have that knowledge.

 

[Elric]

This character path is neat, but a dex based fighter will never do enough damage (as Felix points out). A strength based fighter, on the other hand, still gets 1.5 his strength bonus to damage, doesn't need to take weapon finesse, and has an easier time tripping enemies.

I have a monk with defensive throw (from OA and complete warrior) and it's a gerat feat. He used to have grappling block (from OA only), but it required you to be hit to activate it. Unfortunately, any character powerful enough to hit you will usually be too good for you to beat with grappling block (you have to beat their attack roll- if you do, you block the attack and steal their weapon).

I remember calculating that I hit myself 40% of the time, so if an enemy hit me 60% of the time, grappling block would work 15% of the time (and you can only use it once a round). This is just a warning for characters with cool moves- there are quite a few opponents, even humanoids of your own size category, who your cool moves will not work against.

 

[Pax]

Chasmodai, Kray is a dwarf in the Exodus arena (see SIG), with an ungodly number of hitpoints. The more you hurt him -- until your total damage inflicted for the encounter has broken four-digit mark -- the more capable he is of hurting YOU.

Let's see, +1 to hit and damage for every 50 points of damage you do, he can take a total of ~ 800hp of damage and STILL have about as many hitpoints as most characters start with (Biofeedback and a HUGE constitution, so he can about split damage between lethal and nonlethal, and nearly 1,000hp to start with, IIRC). That's +16 to hit, and +16 damage. And he's still standing! ^_^

He has yet to look into the BoVD's Masochism spell, which would boost him even further ...

 

[The Souljourner]

The words action is overloaded here. It just means you can't take more than one attack of opportunity for each time someone provokes an attack of opportunity. For example - no taking 5 attacks of opportunity when someone stands up from prone.

The movement restriction is the only one that prevents you from taking more than one attack of opportunity due to similar actions in a round. Nothing says that if you cast 3 spells in a round somehow, you don't provoke 3 attacks of opportunity. Same with this feat.

I do think it's a neat feat, but it does worsen your AC by 4, and it does only come into effect when you're getting the holy hell beaten out of you, so I think it's fairly balanced. Actually, it's a great one for my dwarven defender - he already has ridiculous AC and hitpoints, and extra damage output would be greatly appreciated.

-The Souljourner

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I'm thinking you're overlooking a couple of things...

You've 9 Feats. So compare yourself to a Human fighter wielding a greatsword at 12th level.

...

Your feat selection turns you into a less-than-effective one-trick-pony, though it is terribly flavorful.

Sorry.

Don't apologize first of all - obviously we have two different considerations in character generation

However, as I said, I believe you are overlooking a couple of things.

My feat selections:
Exotic Weapon: Spiked Chain; Weapon Finesse; Combat Reflex; Dodge; Combat Expertise; Improved Trip; Karmic Strike; Deft Opportunist; KnockDown; Goad; Weapon Focus

Believe it or not - by sixth level I'll have almost all of these, excepting only KnockDown, Goad and I think one or two others (i'd have to see my character plan), but I'll have Karmic Strike, Deft opportunist and Improved Trip - and those are what you are overlooking...

Around 12th, I'll likely be going into Dervish PrC, not sticking with straight fighter, but that's a different discussion.


In a normal round, I'll declare combat expertise, taking a -4 to my to hit roll, to add +4 to my AC. I'll then take a full attack action (assuming 6th level) to hit twice from my BAB - 6/1. My dex will be at a 19 (headed for 20 at 8th) which gives me +4 to attack, or 10/5, but CE is a -4, so back to 6/1. My AC is at +4 at the end of my round, when I declare Karmic Strike, which inflicts a -4 to my AC, bringing my AC back to normal. My opponent opts to take a full attack (assuming a 6th lvl great sword fighter opponent) for two attacks. It's relatively likely he'll hit me - even with normal AC, I'm only running light armor. Thus, he'll do something like 4d6 + 4xStr. But wait - you're assuming he hits twice! His first attack hits for 2d6 + 2xStr... Then I Karmic Strike him. My normal attack roll with Karmic Strike up would be at -4, but Deft Opportunist adds +4 to any attack of opportunity I make, thus I attack him with a +10 to my attack roll. I'm fairly likely to hit him at this point at a +10 roll, but I'm not attacking for damage - I'm attacking to TRIP. With improved trip, if I knock him down, I get a free melee attack (again at +10 with + 4 for prone). He doesn't get his second attack because he's prone. My next round, I get 2 attacks again, his next round he stands - incurring the next AoO Trip and down he goes again.

It is indeed a ONE trick pony - but don't underestimate it

At 10th I'll be gaining knockdown - if I can do 10 points of damage to you in a hit, I get a free trip - if I trip, I get a free attack... you stand, I trip, and hit.

Oh, and somewhere I'm getting an item of enlarge, so don't forget the AoO Trip opportunity I get as you close with me to hit me with that great big sword

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PS, I read your other thread Tilla the Hun, and noticed that you called your DM a Rules Lawyer. I heretofore issue an injunction against you ever calling him a rules lawyer again; I am one and a certain degree of knowledge of the rules is expected before you get your degree in Rules Lawyering. He doens't have that knowledge.

LOL - I tend to agree - but he does cite rules and precedent to back up his position. I called him on changing rules and he cited GM 0 Rule as the precedent. I called him on upping the feats required and he cited similar magic items and ignored other examples I countered with.

I gave up - you can't argue with a GM who knows the rules, and is willing to make them be what he wants them to be to support his position.

That's 2 players in our group that have declared they will never again touch arcane magic in his game