Can Undead Rage?

[Crothian]

Why did we fish out this old thread when we havea new thread on this very topic?

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18904

 

[Corwin]

Why did we fish out this old thread when we havea new thread on this very topic?

Well, I can think of a few reasons.

1) I saw this one first.

2) The other thread title asks if the rage should last indefinitely. This one is asking a more basic question (rage: yes or no).

3) The other one is full of a bunch of OT cross-posting (by you). I'd rather not have to wade through your soliciting of praise for slapping ELH templates onto monsters to see how gross you can get them. (BTW, not very. You creations seem pretty basic and docile considering their CR).

4) Someone else already posted my prefered means of handling the problem on the other thread (use Cha mod). So posting over there would make me redundant. Over hear, I am contributing something as-of-yet unmentioned.

BTW, I'm not ranting or trying to be insulting. You asked. I'm not even sure why you even bothered to post the question in the first place. Does it matter if there are two threads going? There's plenty of responses in each. It seems that, if they can both stay afloat, they should. Are you trying to get more people over to read your "big beasties"?

[Edit: added reason #4]

 

[Crothian]

Does it matter if there are two threads going? There's plenty of responses in each. It seems that, if they can both stay afloat, they should. Are you trying to get more people over to read your "big beasties"?

The only reason I pointed it out is becasue people like to have one thread on one topic going at a time. I found it odd becasue this thread was months old. It doesn't matter, I was just wondering is all.

 

[Corwin]

You know, dispite my attempts to not be snapish, I was.

I apologize.

Caveat: My wife was supposed to be home 2 hours ago and I'm getting a bit testy (I'd rather not use the word "worried"). So I started actively surfing the boards, looking for something to take my mind off of things. I saw your post and got a little jumpy. Again, I apologize.

Lookie here, now I'm being Capt. OT.

Oh well, nobody's perfect I guess. Not even me.

 

[Crothian]

You know, dispite my attempts to not be snapish, I was.

I apologize.

It happens, no harm done. I shouldn't have been cross posting in the other thread, but it happend. Before this thread gets derailed, let's get back on topic.

Not only would I probably allow it (because it's just cool), but I'd probably let the undead substitute its Charisma score for Con to determine duration. This would coincide with similar rules applied to undead psionicists as well as their use of the Concentration skill.

Come on. Tell me a barbarian revenant wouldn't be a great opponent! I can't wait to try it.

The thought of undead raging is cool and I agree that for duration cha should replace the con modifier. Since undead don't have cons and can't gain HP becasue of that, rage is already weakened for them. I see no reason to weaken it anymore then that.

 

[Corwin]

It is important to remember that the rage ability (usually from barbarian) is part of that creature's CR. To remove it (or greatly weaken it) would reduce their overall effectiveness.

Why should a revenant barbarian be penalized so far much more than a fighter, rogue, or whatever? Even clerics are allowed to transfer to a new (Evil) god upon undeath, if I'm not mistaken.

Keeping the rage ability as close to the original as possible maintains a semblance of balance, IMO. (Plus, it's still cool. )

It does suck, though, to not get the extra HP. But hey, they lost their normal Con bonus to HPs when they became undead anyway. So that is something par for the course for them.

 

[Lela]

I just love it when people get along.

It does seem that the Cha mod is the way to go. It seems to be the undead's tie-in with the extra powers that can come from using Negitive Energy.

On the other hand, this still greatly weakens the creature, who, being a BBN, wouldn't normally have a high Cha and had put all their stats into Con. But hay, that's the nature of the game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Would they still be winded at the end though?

 

[the Jester]

I'll vote for using its cha bonus for rage duration.

Not because it's supported anywhere in the rules (near as I can tell, it's not), but because it makes for _cool_ bad guys! Frankly, I think most dms are willing to fudge a wee bit to make cool bad guys... whether the 1e goblin who was basically a thief (with backstab, etc.) or the raging revenant.

I think of it this way: is there a chance I'll ever make, say, a barbarian vampire? Heck yeah! Do I want him to be worth remembering? Heck yeah again! Will he be if I nerf his main class ability?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Why is that I suddenly picture a lot highly charismatic dead barbarians.

Come on, people, charisma is the dumb-stat for barbarians, and although the ghost template grants a +4 to charisma, I don not think that really helps the poor ghostly sod more than using his non-existant constitution score.

 

[Lela]

Why is that I suddenly picture a lot highly charismatic dead barbarians.

Come on, people, charisma is the dumb-stat for barbarians, and although the ghost template grants a +4 to charisma, I don not think that really helps the poor ghostly sod more than using his non-existant constitution score.

Better than nothing, which was the alternative at the beginning of this thread.

I, personally, would like the constantly in effect thing, but I also know that could get overpowered easily if it were a player. Harder whent it's an NPC.