Can WotC be forgiven?

[EzekielRaiden]

Hasbro has operated the IPs for GI Joe, Transformers, and My Little Pony for how long now? Like 35+ years? I'm certain that they have the concept of a cheesed-off fandom. I believe that they even talk about the unforeseen backlash to the death of Optimus Prime (and other transformers) in Transformers the Movie.

Though the underlying point of the argument remains: MLP, GI Joe, Transformers, etc. are toy lines (and sometimes TV shows/films/comics/etc.) The toys in particular are rather impersonal. D&D, by its very nature, is the antithesis of impersonal; it only exists when personified through the end user. That creates a very different dynamic. (For comparison, I would put MtG somewhere in the middle: it's toy-like, and to a collector it's pretty impersonal, but to the intended user it can be very personal, because it's a game.)

 

[Aldarc]

Though the underlying point of the argument remains: MLP, GI Joe, Transformers, etc. are toy lines (and sometimes TV shows/films/comics/etc.) The toys in particular are rather impersonal. D&D, by its very nature, is the antithesis of impersonal; it only exists when personified through the end user. That creates a very different dynamic. (For comparison, I would put MtG somewhere in the middle: it's toy-like, and to a collector it's pretty impersonal, but to the intended user it can be very personal, because it's a game.)

I do agree with @Umbran's point there that TTRPG involves more of a hobby-engagement of fandom than most toy fandoms. My reading of Umbran's post was that Hasbro was somehow naive or unaware of "cheezed-off fandom" or fandoms in general. I don't think that they are as ignorant as implied, and people also like to believe that their fandoms and communities are somehow unique or exceptional.

 

[ilgatto]

But first, a hard rain's gonna fall.

Brian Ferry = God

Not for the easily offended

 

[DEFCON 1]

I do not anthropomorphize businesses. So there is nothing to forgive.

I have made transactions for goods and services with this particular company and that's where my concern begins and ends. I wanted something they had to sell... I bought it... and our interactions were complete. Anything else the company does outside of that does not matter to me-- good or bad.

 

[mamba]

Do you really think a commercial publisher is going to release their back catalogue and current works for free?

that is not what they were asking for imo, more separate SRDs for BX, 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e and 5e. Not sure why we would need any for 1 or 2 by now, for all intents and purposes we have those in OSRIC, but 4e might be nice for some

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Anything else the company does outside of that does not matter to me-- good or bad.

That's not about anthropomorphization, or not, though, is it? That's just compartmentalization - the exact behaviour you describe can apply to people too. If I dare say it I think it's a little unserious of you to make this claim, because I have no doubt if you found out WotC was doing something truly unpleasant-but-legal (like, say, dumping toxic-but-technically-legal-waste), that would impact your dealings with them.

 

[Mercurius]

Even large organizations can learn and change. It is hard, but it can happen.

Honestly, this is a learning time for Hasbro. They recently realized that their real money wasn't in typical consumer products, but in WotC's products, and they rearranged to work with that.

But, prior to this, Hasbro's major money came from pretty impersonal sales of low-meaning products to people who don't think about them much later - while there are certainly people who are really into Monopoly, most sets get bought, played a few times, and then end up in a closet.

WotC's products and success, though, are based in the engagement of fandom, and repeated sales of products into that fandom.

Which means Hasbro has little concept of a cheesed-off fandom.

From that perspective, any errors made by Hasbro leaning in are entirely understandable bumbling of folks who are ignorant, and probably not listening to those with experience.

Right, but they're probably not going to change their basic nature - that of a wolf, in my analogy. They'll just be better at playing the sheep...which may end up being enough, or amounting to close to the same thing, at least to a certain point.

The RPG industry is somewhat rare in that it is largely run by people who also avidly consume what is produced and generally have a real love of the hobby. We can contrast that with the music industry in that decisions are made by corporate suits and 100% about profit. This is not to say that RPG companies aren't also about profits, but there's less of a gap between corporate suits and the customer base...because a lot/most of the rpg "suits" are customers as well. The lone exception, afaik, being Hasbro/WotC. And as I said, Hasbro previously seemed content just letting the nerds at WotC run the company, but now that it is a bonafide cash-cow, seemingly a more corporate approach is taking over.

So along the lines of what you say, the best we can probably hope for is that Hasbro realizes that D&D will thrive if the corporate nature of the operation is more reciprocal with fandom. But that isn't "deep change" - it is more algorithmic adjustment, like a robot adjusting itself to serve its human master, but ultimately remaining a robot.

 

[Parmandur]

That's not about anthropomorphization, or not, though, is it? That's just compartmentalization - the exact behaviour you describe can apply to people too. If I dare say it I think it's a little unserious of you to make this claim, because I have no doubt if you found out WotC was doing something truly unpleasant-but-legal (like, say, dumping toxic-but-technically-legal-waste), that would impact your dealings with them.

There are companies from whom I will not buy product: Ubiaoft or Acrivision come to mind. WotC is a long way from clearing that bar just because they fumbled a license concept.

 

[Azgulor]

Even before the ORC License announcement, no. The threat of it ending is enough to end it's support. Now that the ORC License has been announced, why go back to a license that will definitely one day end?

THIS

 

[DEFCON 1]

...because I have no doubt if you found out WotC was doing something truly unpleasant-but-legal (like, say, dumping toxic-but-technically-legal-waste), that would impact your dealings with them.

Only if what they did was against me personally... and even then it wouldn't be cut and dried.

So for instance if a company/business gave me bad service... sure, I'm good with not going there anymore if I'm fine giving up whatever it is they were offering me. But at the same time if they still had something I wanted, then it's quite possible I'd still go back there and work around any issues in order to get it.

But if businesses don't impact me outside of my dealings with them? I don't concern myself with any of it. And I honestly don't remember any time when I did (to hedge my bets, since maybe some time in my 50 years of life I did and I just don't recall.)

Is that a cold and dick-ish attitude to have? Sure. No arguments. But that hands-off approach also leads to all the good parts where I don't try and force my feelings and opinions of things onto other people either. (General) you can live your life however you want... and you won't have to worry about any issues with me. I don't care what (general) you do with your life up until it impacts me directly and at that point we'll talk. Live and let live and all that.