Can you Cleave after a Cup De' Grassey?

Trainz said:
I gave up on this argument many posts ago, because I feel the rarity of the described event doesn't warrant so many bits and bytes.

This is what makes this forum so great! :D

(why did the title change? Cup de' Grassey? btw, just like in english, you don't have to put an apostrophe unless you actually remove a letter. If you want to know how to pronouce "Coup de Grâce", it's "Coo duh Grouss")

AR
 

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hong said:
For heavens sake people, 100 posts in and noone has bothered to point out that there's an 'e' in the word:

Coupe de gras.

Thank you.

Correct, sir. This actually means something. It means "goblet of fat" but goblets of fat are things, after all.

AR said:
(why did the title change? Cup de' Grassey? btw, just like in english, you don't have to put an apostrophe unless you actually remove a letter. If you want to know how to pronouce "Coup de Grâce", it's "Coo duh Grouss")

I guess it was just to make the thread title more painful for French-speaking eyes, if I may put things this way.

I'm not sure how "grouss" is meant to be pronounced, since it don't exist. Probably like "drow". Or "fnord".

Anyway, all French 'a' (that aren't part of a diphtong) are pronounced about as the 'a' in "father", so "coo duh grass" can be seen as an OK guideline.

But you may also consider using "merciful blow", which would have the benefit of letting you butcher your own language. :p


On topic, no, you can't; since while a CDG is an agressive action, it's not an attack action. And cleave is after an attack action. So there.
 

Great flyby attack feat (General) from Savage Species:

Using this feat is a full-round action. When flying, you can move up to your fly speed in a straight line and attack a number of opponents equal to your Dexterity bonus. All targets must be within your reach along the line of your movement. Make one attack roll, add the appropriate modifiers, and compare the result to the AC of each opponent you are attacking. If any hits are successful, make one damage roll and add the appropriate modifiers. Each successful hit does the full damage to that creature; do not divide the result of the damage roll among the targets. Targets of your attack do not get attacks of opportunity against you, but other opponents that would be entitled to attacks of opportunity may make them.


So, is Great cleave applicable and how would you arrange the True Strike and cleave hits? No true strike to cleaved opponents, but still use true strike on the targets further back on the flyby run?

Thanks alot. Sorry about the straight quote, but I belive it helps the question alot when people know what we are talking about.
 

Dthamilaye said:
Great flyby attack feat (General) from Savage Species:

Using this feat is a full-round action. When flying, you can move up to your fly speed in a straight line and attack a number of opponents equal to your Dexterity bonus. All targets must be within your reach along the line of your movement. Make one attack roll, add the appropriate modifiers, and compare the result to the AC of each opponent you are attacking. If any hits are successful, make one damage roll and add the appropriate modifiers. Each successful hit does the full damage to that creature; do not divide the result of the damage roll among the targets. Targets of your attack do not get attacks of opportunity against you, but other opponents that would be entitled to attacks of opportunity may make them.

So, is Great cleave applicable and how would you arrange the True Strike and cleave hits? No true strike to cleaved opponents, but still use true strike on the targets further back on the flyby run?
Someone's an idiot who didn't realise that the wording and mechanics for this feat are looney. For starters, true strike works on all the attacks - because it applies to a single attack roll. Next up - I've no idea how this works with cleave/great cleave, because it doesn't say WHEN the attack roll is made, or when the movement is performed, or when AoO's take effect, or anything.

Do you start by saying "I'm making a GFBA", then rolling the attack roll, then moving along the flight path, choosing targets, and resolving AoO's and GFBA attacks as you go?

If so - you can cherry pick targets for the AC and damage you've rolled. Rolled low? Hit the goons. Rolled high? Hit the BBEG. You can also avoid AoO's by killing a target before you move past him. If this is the case, cleave/great cleave work as normal, with targets being selected from those within reach at different points along the path.

If you start by saying "I'm making a GFBA", then moving and selecting targets, THEN resolving them all with an attack roll and damage, then you'll be using cleave and great cleave attacks on targets within reach at the END of the move. Also if AoO's take you down before you get to the end of the move, you get NO attacks.

If you make the GFBA, pick path and targets, then roll, then resolve damage, then move, all cleaves apply to targets in reach of your starting locale, AoO's can't stop you making the action, but you can't cherry pick.

If you start by saying "I'm making a GFBA", then choosing a path and targets, rolling the attack, THEN actually moving and applying damage, cleaves apply to targets in reach at each point of the move and AoO's which kill you stop you damaging remaining targets, and you can't cherry pick for damage and AC. I'd use this last order - although it's a bit complicated, it seems to be the only one which addresses all the problem issues and resolves in a sane manner.
 

Heya:

KarinsDad said:
If you make a melee attack roll, you can use Power Attack to decrease the melee attack roll and increase the melee damage roll.

Are you using imprecise language here? You have to use Power Attack first, right? Shouldn't your sentence begin, "If you use Power Attack, then..."?

Take care,
Dreeble

PS: On the other hand, overall I'm on the no PA damage bonus for CDG side, simply because in a debate this long and meandering, the intent needs to be looked at, in my opinion, and I somehow doubt the designers intended for PA to apply to CDG. But hey, presumably somebody has already emailed The Sage on this. Right?

PPS: I always pronounced it, "coo duh grah". The 's' _isn't_ silent?
 

Dreeble said:
PS: On the other hand, overall I'm on the no PA damage bonus for CDG side, simply because in a debate this long and meandering, the intent needs to be looked at, in my opinion, and I somehow doubt the designers intended for PA to apply to CDG. But hey, presumably somebody has already emailed The Sage on this. Right?

I don't see why they wouldn't want PA to apply to CDG, especially when things like strength bonus, sneak attack and weapon specialisation do...
 


What Hyp said.

"Gras" has a silent S, is roughly pronounced "grah" and means "fat".

"Grâce" has no S at all, is roughly pronounced "grass" and mean grace or mercy.

"Coup de grâce" means merciful blow.
"Coup de gras" don't exist, but if it did, it would mean blow of fat.


So, again, you may also consider using "merciful blow", which would have the benefit of letting you butcher your own language. :p
 

Saeviomagy said:
Someone's an idiot who didn't realise that the wording and mechanics for this feat are looney. For starters, true strike works on all the attacks - because it applies to a single attack roll. Next up - I've no idea how this works with cleave/great cleave, because it doesn't say WHEN the attack roll is made, or when the movement is performed, or when AoO's take effect, or anything.

....

Thanks :). I printed your post for later reading and thinking.

I personally thought GFBA to work as you say in the last paragraph. Announce, pick path and targets, roll attack, then move and resolve at each opponent/target. It seems to be working most 'logically'.
 


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