Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[KarinsDad]

Quick question. I'm having a discussion with some people over on the WotC site as to whether Claws of the Beast can be Empowered, Maximized, etc.

From a rules perspective, it appears that they can be since the damage done by the claws appear to be a variable numeric effect. However, people over there claim that it is like Call Weaponry where you get a weapon (a natural weapon in the case of CotB) and it cannot be empowered.

So, I was curious how the people here thought about it.

 

[Bacris]

I'm trying to stay out of the debate over on the Psionics forum, but I'll vote here

 

[KarinsDad]

Cool.

 

[MarkB]

As I understand it, spells that create weapons cannot be maximised or empowered to increase their damage, because wielding the weapon is considered an attack, not a direct effect of the spell. I don't have a cite for that, I'm afraid.

 

[Darklone]

I don't like the whole Claws psionic powers.

 

[KarinsDad]

As I understand it, spells that create weapons cannot be maximised or empowered to increase their damage, because wielding the weapon is considered an attack, not a direct effect of the spell. I don't have a cite for that, I'm afraid.

That's the problem. Nobody appears to have a cite for that.

 

[Nifft]

The chain of reasoning I recall is:

"Empower" empowers variable, numeric effects of a spell (or power).

The effect of claws of the beast is not numeric or variable -- the power's effect is exactly two claws.

The claws deal damage, which is listed in the power's description, but the damage is the effect of an attack.

(Note how the power does not require an attack roll, but the damage does. That's a sure sign they're only indirectly related. )

-- N

 

[KarinsDad]

The effect of claws of the beast is not numeric or variable -- the power's effect is exactly two claws.

The effect of Fireball is not numeric or variable -- the spell's effect is exactly an explosion of flame.

This is not rules, this is semantics to support a POV. A logical construct that does not use the rules to support itself, rather it creates rules.

What is needed is a rule that states that spells or powers that create weapons, even though they specify the damage of the weapon within them, cannot be Empowered.

(Note how the power does not require an attack roll, but the damage does. That's a sure sign they're only indirectly related. )

What you say here is true, but where is the rule that says that indirectly related does not allow Empower?

That (or something similar) is the missing rule. Where is the rule that states that in this case, the damage is not a variable numeric effect? Hyp?


Personally, I do not care on which side of the fence the rule falls on, I just see a lot of people saying no with no actual rules support to back that POV.

 

[Artoomis]

You call forth the aggressive nature of the beast inherent in yourself, psionically transforming your hands into deadly claws. You gain two natural attacks with your claws, each dealing 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if you are Large, or 1d3 if you are Small) plus your Strength bonus.

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6)

I'd say the effect of Claws of the Beast is to give you two natural weapons. The damage done is not the spell effect. The damage done is each time they are wielded they do damage according to the fixed (not variable) size of the natural weapon. The spell casues no damage. The effect is to create two claws which then may be wielded to create damage. The claws are fixed in size relative to your size.

The effect of fireball is a ball of flame that does 2d6 fire damage per level, (max 10d6). The spell causes variable damage.

I vote no.

 

[Sejs]

Voted no.

Can you empower Astral Construct?