Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[KarinsDad]

As it is defined as a natural attack, and that is defined elsewhere, wouldn't that make it not empowerable?

According to which rule though?

 

[KarinsDad]

If you dont believe that Maximized Summon Monster X gives you critters with all 18 base stats, max hp, that do max damage on every attack, you already know the answer to this question.

I do not see a variable numeric effect listed within Summon Monster X except for the number of (lower level) creatures for SM II and higher. That says to me that you can get 50% more creatures if it were empowered, but that's the only random variable listed in the spell description.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I do not see a variable numeric effect listed within Summon Monster X except for the number of (lower level) creatures for SM II and higher. That says to me that you can get 50% more creatures if it were empowered, but that's the only random variable listed in the spell description.

I see nothing about Empower Spell that restricts it to within the spell description. Accordingly, not only can the monster's hp (a variable, numeric effect) be empowered, but so can the attack roll for a disintegrate spell (unless you use the roll AC variant which would make it explicitly an opposed roll and thus not be affected).

Of course, this is a rather thin analogy intended to show that the claw damage is not empowerable.

 

[Stalker0]

Isn't there a rule on melf's acid arrow and other damage over time spells that the maximized or empowered effect only works on the first instance of the damage?

If that's true (I could have just made that up I don't remember) then I would apply that ruling to the claws. On the round or first attack they get teh bonus. Past that, they wouldn't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Isn't there a rule on melf's acid arrow and other damage over time spells that the maximized or empowered effect only works on the first instance of the damage?

Not that I'm aware of.

And I'd absolutely allow Empower or Maximize to work on a Spiritual Weapon... on every damage roll it makes. Likewise Wall of Fire, Blade Barrier, Flaming Sphere...

So are you going to vote, or do you not like being in the minority?

Oops - forgot it was a poll!

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As it is defined as a natural attack, and that is defined elsewhere, wouldn't that make it not empowerable?

Rays are defined elsewhere, but the damage dealt by a specific ray is defined in the spell description, and that's the variable numeric effect.

Natural attacks (and claws) are defined elsewhere, but the damage dealt by these claws is defined within the spell, and that's the variable numeric effect.

Remembering, of course, that "defined within the spell" is only my own rule of thumb, not anything that's spelled out in the PHB anywhere.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

I see nothing about Empower Spell that restricts it to within the spell description.

How about?

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.

A spell is a one-time magical effect.

DESCRIPTIVE TEXT
This portion of a spell description details what the spell does and how it works. If one of the previous entries in the description included “see text,” this is where the explanation is found.

Isn't "what the spell does and how it works" the "effect"?

Do you have another definition of effect?

 

[pawsplay]

According to which rule though?

I was commenting on Hyp's rule of thumb.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't think damage is the effect of claws of the beast. It affects "You," and you do not take damage.

 

[KarinsDad]

I was commenting on Hyp's rule of thumb.

But Hyp's rule of thumb makes it empowerable. Your comment indicates that it would not be.

So, which rule are you basing your comment on?