Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[Infiniti2000]

Isn't "what the spell does and how it works" the "effect"?

Do you have another definition of effect?

So, are you saying that a summoned monster is not an effect of summon monster? If it is an effect, then why wouldn't its hit points, attack rolls, and damage all be effects?

 

[Dracorat]

If you Shrink a boulder and throw it at someone, and upon impact, that boulder does 6D6 damage due to weight and size - could you empower such a spell?

No, because the damage dealt by the boulder is not the result of the shrink.

The power in question - all you have to ask is whether the damage is the result of claw damage or if the spell gives a magical amount of damage. I read it as claw damage in which case it cannot be empowered as per the example I just gave.

If you beleive the damage is a magical effect from the spell, then in that case, it could be empowered.

 

[Dracorat]

So, are you saying that a summoned monster is not an effect of summon monster? If it is an effect, then why wouldn't its hit points, attack rolls, and damage all be effects?

Because none of what you describe is listed within the spell description. The monster that appears is a side-effect of the spell.

[edit for clarification] The monster appearing is a direct result of the spell. The stats of that monster are the side effect.

 

[pawsplay]

I think I would like to use a maximized flame blade, since it would be natural 20s all the way. Maximized reincarnate? Go ahead and kill me now!

 

[Thanee]

No, you can't.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

Because none of what you describe is listed within the spell description. The monster that appears is a side-effect of the spell.

[edit for clarification] The monster appearing is a direct result of the spell. The stats of that monster are the side effect.

Where is side-effect distinguished from effect? What about Empower Spell (per the SRD anyway, maybe the PH is different) requires it to be direct effects or main effects and not side effects? It just says effect. Now, we all know how ill-defined "effect" is, so don't ask me to define it. Instead, decide if a summoned monster is an effect of a summon monster spell. If so, it qualifies for the empowering by the feat.

Now, I answer No because I don't honestly believe that that's the way it should work, but based on the question asked, everyone should answer yes. In other words, I can cast and empowered mage armor, but the empower feat has no effect. Nothing keeps me from doing it, however, and that's the question that was asked (I answered the question implied, instead).

 

[Dracorat]

Actually, the descriptive text on the summoning descriptor might help you here:

Summoning

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

Like I said, the direct effect is the bringing and dismissal of a creature. All aspects about that creature otherwise are side-effects of the summoning, except those specifically called out in the spell text (like how it limits creature type and level).

 

[MarkB]

Because none of what you describe is listed within the spell description. The monster that appears is a side-effect of the spell.

[edit for clarification] The monster appearing is a direct result of the spell. The stats of that monster are the side effect.

Couldn't you just as easily claim that the claws are the effect of the Claws of the Beast power, and that any damage someone happens to inflict with them is a side effect?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Actually, the descriptive text on the summoning descriptor might help you here:

I don't see how it helps; it's entirely irrelevant.

Like I said, the direct effect is the bringing and dismissal of a creature. All aspects about that creature otherwise are side-effects of the summoning, except those specifically called out in the spell text (like how it limits creature type and level).

You said it, sure, but what's the point. Side effect or not, direct effect or not, has no bearing. They're effects. Explain how Empower Spell distinguishes between side effects, direct effects, and other types of effects (other than non-numeric, non-variable)?

 

[Bacris]

I don't think damage is the effect of claws of the beast. It affects "You," and you do not take damage.

I like this line of logic best out of all posed